WineXpert Equipment Planning Question

I'm new at kit winemaking ... have the equipment kit with 2 glass carboys. I have my first ingredient kit started (Sonoma Chardonnay). Based upon what i've read/researched ... i plan to bulk age my kits in carboys (reds for a ~year, whites for ~6 months). Hopefully that, 1-helps me stay out of them before they're really good, 2-gives me a chance to collect bottles.

My questions ... when bulk aging kits (whites & reds) do you need to rack every 3 months and add kmeta @ every racking?

Or can you/should you leave it in the same carboy until your bulk aging time is complete (having added kmeta when it went into the carboy)?

does racking a kit wine during this bulk aging provide any benefits? I plan to omit the sorbate at the clearing stage (for any kit wines).

Are there any issues with bulk aging in carboy with airlock ... vs a solid bung?

I ask because i'm trying to see how many kits i can get started without having to buy a ton of carboys ...

Thanks for the help ... enjoy browsing this forum.

You are on the right track. If it is in the carboy it's hard to grab a bottle and taste test, which in my case can happen often enough to ensure that you will have no wine left that properly ages.

You should rack at least every three months if doing extended aging. In the perfect world you would have a test kit to measure your SO2 levels. In the world most of us live in if you add 1/4 tsp of Kmeta every three months you will maintain a level of SO2 that will protect your wine from over oxidation and nasties that can grow in your wine (unless you have a real high pH, which wouldn't happen if you are making a kit, which is adjusted to avoid that). If you do it during racking it will integrate well without having to stir your wine excessively.

Hope that helps.

I can only answer based on my personal experience. I bulk age wine in (glass) carboys sometimes for more than 2 years, and, I never rack them beyond what I do in the initial winemaking process. I do not know of any reason why it would be advantageous to rack the wine every 90 days.
Adding SO2 every 90 days will raise the total SO2 levels in your wine, and, to me this is not desirable. I seldom add more than an extra 1/4 tsp (to what was provided with the kit), when bulk aging for up to 1 year, and, another 1\4 tsp if aging longer. Another factor is how long you plan to keep the bottled wine before drinking it, I personally don't plan on cellaring kit wine beyond 3 years, although it does sometimes happen.
As far as using a solid bung in a wine that is bulk aging, the problem is that temperature fluctuations can cause the solid bung to be pushed out.
I have testing equipment for SO2 levels, but, even with this equipment, experience is helpful.
Generally speaking, while it is true that you can bulk age your wines for longer terms than the time frames in kit instructions; I would be cautious about pushing too far when you are just starting into this great hobby.

Cheers;

Bar

I agree with ceeaton - for carboy transfers


does racking a kit wine during this bulk aging provide any benefits? =

Yes - helps clarify the wine , gives to time to taste and adjust if necessary,and of course ages the wine to be more smooth.

I plan to omit the sorbate at the clearing stage (for any kit wines). =

Why ? are you planning on back sweeten at all ? what is your hydrometer reading ? I hope you do not have any residual sugar as fermentation can happen again, all depending on other factors as well.

Are there any issues with bulk aging in carboy with airlock ... vs a solid bung =

I always like using an airlock as the barometric pressure or temperature can actually push the bung loose without you even knowing that oxygen is entering your wine.

I ask because i'm trying to see how many kits i can get started without having to buy a ton of carboys .. =

Patience , patience and more time - keep a look out for carboys on craigslist or put an add mentioning that you are looking for some. I just saw an add today for 5 gallon carboys - 10 dollars each - he has 15 on hand - thats a good price

vacuumpumpman said:

I plan to omit the sorbate at the clearing stage (for any kit wines). =

Why ? are you planning on back sweeten at all ? what is your hydrometer reading ? I hope you do not have any residual sugar as fermentation can happen again, all depending on other factors as well.

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from reading/research sorbate seems to be chemical additive to kits need if being bottled at wk ~8 (i.e. not waiting to bottle). My understanding of what sorbate does may be wrong, but thought it performs similar function as kmeta (to kill yeast, protect wine, but does this so wine can be bottled at wk 8).

I've also heard the wine seems to get KT from the sorbate.

I do not plan to back-sweeten any of my first batches of wine (other than omitting sorbate and carboy aging - i'm following all the other instructions for the first couple kits)... i've got to have proof i can make a kit that tastes good before i start tinkering anymore than i already am with the kit instructions.

Sorbate does not kill yeast. It acts as birth control. Keeps it from budding and making new yeast. If your residual sugar is zero, ie your hydrometer reads leads than 1.0000 you can probably safely omit it. However, I always add it, I don't think it brings on the dreaded kit taste. I think that is more a function of bottling and drinking to soon.

. I agree with Craig ^^

You may want to look at the following threads -
making a f-pac -

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44497

thinking outside the box -

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9155

when good wines gone bad -

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14483

mforney12 said:

My questions ... when bulk aging kits (whites & reds) do you need to rack every 3 months and add kmeta @ every racking?

Or can you/should you leave it in the same carboy until your bulk aging time is complete (having added kmeta when it went into the carboy)?

Click to expand...

In my opinion, whether it helps to rack depends on whether significant sediment has dropped out. If there is nothing to rack off of, I would leave it.
You should, however, keep your sulfite levels up. I don't have a means to test, so I am in the 1/4-tsp-every-3-mos. camp.

I plan to omit the sorbate at the clearing stage (for any kit wines).

Are there any issues with bulk aging in carboy with airlock ... vs a solid bung?

Click to expand...

I also omit the sorbate. No problems so far. Tim Vandergrift says that using a solid bung after wine is degassed thoroughly (a few mos.) is okay.

I don't rack unless there's sufficient sediment to warrant a racking. I also don't use sorbate, unless dealing with a wine that has residual sugar.

Welcome to the hobby! My suggestion would be that you will need to add carboys for doing several batches at once. Which is a great way to build up your stock of wine.

When bulk aging I add 1/4 teaspoon of kmeta every three months. So you will need to buy kmeta in addition to what is provided in your kit.

Best of luck!

Hey Steve. That's a good suggestion about looking for extra carboys on Craigslist. Your post prompted me to check, and I've just gotten home with 5... 3 six gallons, 1 five gallon and one three gallon. Listed for $100 but he took $85 for the lot. Included two Carboy handles and a bung. I hope that was a decent price.

TemperanceOwl said:

Hey Steve. That's a good suggestion about looking for extra carboys on Craigslist. Your post prompted me to check, and I've just gotten home with 5... 3 six gallons, 1 five gallon and one three gallon. Listed for $100 but he took $85 for the lot. Included two Carboy handles and a bung. I hope that was a decent price.

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Sounds like you scored !!

Sometimes you get lucky right away - other times you have to check daily

A bit of real world data:

I just racked a carboy that contained a degassed, fined and filtered kit. The carboy had a solid bung and hadn't been opened for 5 months. I racked it anyway, but found the bottom of the carboy squeaky clean as I expected. So in this case racking did nothing good and exposed it to some oxygen. I added some more sulfites and sealed it back up.

I have another carboy with a kit that was degassed but not fined or filtered. It is still dropping sediment so racking occasionally will get rid of it. Ultimately I think the only important thing is to keep sulfites up.

RE: eclipse Sonoma Chardonnay I'm on day 6 of the clearing stage of the kit. I've noticed after the degassing the first few days started clearing and settling. However the process seems to have stalled recently ... Still fairly cloudy. Is there any harm in waiting to rack to aging carboy for a while longer? How long can I wait?

Have you stabilized it, meaning, have you added k-meta? If so, there is no harm in waiting indefinitely for this to clear. You could wait 6 mos. or more if you desired.

Yes, I added kmetta, sorbate, degassed, then added the clear stuff chitosan and degassed again. I may just have to wait longer before racking

sour_grapes said:

Have you stabilized it, meaning, have you added k-meta? If so, there is no harm in waiting indefinitely for this to clear. You could wait 6 mos. or more if you desired.

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If I understand what stage he's in correctly, wouldn't he want to get the wine off the gross lees before letting it bulk age and finish clearing? In Tim Vandergrift's extended schedule, he says to get it off the gross lees within a month or so of the start date to avoid off flavors. I think he recommends racking 20 days after the stabilization and clearing step, which would still give mforney12's wine another 2 weeks from his initial post. What do you think?

Here's pics of the carboy with the Chardonnay. This is day 8 of clearing (end of step #3). Tonight (according to instructions) I should be racking to a clean carboy for a minimum of 28 days ... Does anyone know if the pics 'show' the wine being ready???

Don't want to wait too long ... But don't want to move too fast either.

I would wait. The one thing I learned from making wine is that it's ok to procrastinate. Let the wine do its thing. I think it's still cloudy from the pics.

Glad someone else shares the opinion. Only fear I have is leaving it too long and possibly picking up 'off flavors'.