WineXpert WE Speciale' Chocolate Salted Caramel

Decided to mess around with some of the specialty kits, ordered two of these, they make 3 gallons each and wanted to do 6 gallons.

Each kit comes with juice, fpack, chap. pack (60 g dextrose), typical chems and fining agents as well as two EC 1118. Instructions say to add both yeast packs, ferment down to <1.020, and add the dextrose and allow it to finish before racking, chems, fining, etc.

So here's my question. I'm thinking about doing both batches together in my primary fermenter just like a normal 6 gallon batch, adding both dextrose in the beginning (instead of waiting til <1.020) to bring up the SG like I normally would, then pitching the yeast. See any problems with that??? Use all 4 packs of 1118??? Or do two separate batches, following the instructions and combine them later?? Thoughts?

I've got the same kit coming and don't see a problem with doing them together, yeast and all.
Mike

Would the starting s.g. be to high to start with adding the
dextrose at the same time to start? Don't know what the juice
starting s.g. is.

Bill

I don't think the starting SG will be an issue, after all, it's the rising alcohol content that threatens to shut the yeast down toward the end of fermentation as it reaches its threshold. I can't see why it would make any difference to add the dextrose in the beginning versus the end, that's when we normally would adjust our BRIX with sugar anyway.

I feel fairly confident about that, but always welcome advice / experience from anyone who's got some different thoughts to share.

Edit: Answer to Bill's SG question; according to the instructions, the SG should start at a max of 1.139 if dextrose is added. Dextrose adds .015 to the expected starting gravity of 1.124. Resultant ABV in the 19% if it goes to 1.000. I'm thinking EC 1118 should handle that, especially with pitching all four packets. Hope that helps!!!

It is possible to have too high a sugar content for your yeast to kick off fermentation. This, for example, is what prevents honey from spoiling. I do not know, however, what the upper limit on SG is for yeast.[/QUOTE]

SourGrapes, after reading your post, I did some digging and also couldn't find any limits to starting BRIX for EC 1118 on the Lallemand website or any others. A bunch of message board topics did show up, including some from here. Found a couple where joeswine started fermentation with a SG of 1.140 and was successful using two packs of 1118. Since the max of the range in the literature for the wine is 1.139, and the combined kits have 4 packs of 1118, I'm going to give it a try and see how it works out.

I have done two batches of ice cider that started at 1.162 and 1.166. The first batch stalled at 1.076 (12% ABV) and the next at 1.074 (13% ABV). Both used EC-1118 and had nutrient and energizer added at recommended intervals so I can confirm that it is possible to kill even EC-1118 with too much sugar long before the ABV would normally stall it. It seems like the combination of high sugar and increasing ABV is the deadly combination.

I also did an RJS ice wine style kit with EC-1118 that started at about 1.18 (off the end of the hydrometer scale!) and ended at 1.064 (16% ABV) Not sure why that one went further than the appley ones.

Bottom line is I would hold off adding the dextrose per the directions to make sure it all goes as planned.

The original question was about combining kits. I'd still follow the kit instructions on sugar and chem additions. Why chance that?
Mike

After reading the experiences of jsiddall, there is no good reason to chance it!! Will be starting the two batches as one, but adding the dextrose later in the program. Thanks for your post!

I started the Chocolate Rasberry kit today, my SG on just the juice was 1.128 ,
I will definitely wait on adding the chap. sugar as per instructions. hate to waste $100 on a stalled ferment. Heard too many of those stories on these desert wine kits.
Good luck on your salted caramel, sounds yummy

Started mine two days ago, double kit started at 1.127, juice only. Fermentation was in full swing this morning before work. Let me know how the Chocolate Raspberry turns out, I was torn between that one and the Chocolate Salted Caramel.

I've made the Chocolate Raspberry a few times. The starting SG of the first batch (September 2011) was 1.124, temperature during most of fermentation was 77 degrees. Added the dextrose at 1.018, which elevated the SG to 1.032. The fermentation stalled at 1.026.

My second attempt was 9/30/12. Starting SG was very low...only 1.110. I decided to add the dextrose earlier in the fermentation...at 1.064, temperature 72 degrees, raising the SG to 1.080. Only fermented down to 1.014 and stalled again.

Third go, January 2015. Starting SG 1.128, temp 66 degrees. Placed a Brew Belt to maintain a relatively constant temp of 75-76 degrees, waiting to pitch the yeast until the temp was 72, and I also supplemented the must with 1.5 grams of Fermaid K. When the SG was at 1.022, I added only enough dextrose to bump the SG by 0.010 (about 2/3 of the amount supplied). The fermentation stalled at 1.010.

I now have the Chocolate Salted Caramel brewing. Starting SG 1.122, temp 70 degrees. I rehydrated the two packets of EC1118 in GoFerm Protect and added 1.5 grams of Fermaid K at the initiation of activity. Two days later (9/14/15) at SG 1.070, I added the dextrose and another 1.5 grams of Fermaid K. The SG rose to 1.084. Today, the fermentation still appears to be active. The SG is 1.018. I stirred the must and snapped down the lid of my primary bucket under air lock and we'll see what happens.

Bottom line...I've found these kits to be quite temperamental. The first kit was way too sweet for my taste, but friends loved it. The second and third were less sweet than the first, and enjoyable to drink. I estimated the percent alcohol in the first two batches to be a bit over 15% and the third around 17%. Hopefully, this Salted Caramel will go better.

For what it's worth to the conversation...

Bummer David, I'm a little disappointed to hear how difficult they've been to ferment, hopefully I won't have any issues. Started my ferm a few days ago, it's down to 1.030 today, I hit it with a teaspoon of yeast nutrients and it's still rolling along nicely.

My fermentation area temps here a little higher than yours, mid 70's, climbing into the mid 80's from heat produced during the most vigorous fermentation, little bit higher temps might keep fermentation from getting sticky, time will tell the tale. Should hit 20 in the next day or so and get the dextrose addition as scheduled.

It hit 1.020 yesterday morning, added dextrose up to 1.035, 1 tsp of yeast nutrients, gave it some good stirring. It looked pretty still after all that, but started a little sizzling half hour later.
Down to 1.025 this morning. Snapped the lid down, added an airlock, headed to the airport for a two day business trip. We'll see if it keeps on rolling.

Yesterday morning it was at 1.018, racked to a 6 gal carboy to finish fermenting. I did a fairly vigorous splash rack to aerate it a bit, as the bubbler had slowed way down. Put a glass airlock on it, very little activity immediately following racking. Got home from work that afternoon and it was really rolling, co2 streaming up the sides and a nearly continuous flow of co2 coming out of the airlock. Headed out of town for a couple of days, looks like it's gonna finish nicely, will check it when I get back on Sunday.

Update: SG down to 1.010 Sunday evening, still good activity in the carboy and airlock. 1.010 is the SG required to proceed to clear / stabilize phase for this dessert wine, so it looks like I'm good. Still have activity and another 7 days in the carboy before clearing / stabilizing, no problems!!!

Great!

Checked my SG this morning. 10 days after snapping down lid of bucket at SG 1.018 (elected not to rack into carboy to complete fermentation), SG was 0.996! 4th times the charm, apparently.

Racked with AIO into 3 gallon carboy. After F Pack, SG was 1.020...centered in the target range.

Hope your's continues to proceed nicely!

First time doing a dessert wine. Fermented down to .996 no problem. Smells great after adding that chocolate salted caramel F-pack!

Hi, just wondering - do these kits share the same base, with the flavouring only in the F pack? in other words , can I brew a choc raspberry & choc caramel together in a 6 gal then split the batch when adding the f packs into 3 gal carboys? worth doing or keep each separate...

Lournie said:

Hi, just wondering - do these kits share the same base, with the flavouring only in the F pack? in other words , can I brew a choc raspberry & choc caramel together in a 6 gal then split the batch when adding the f packs into 3 gal carboys? worth doing or keep each separate...

Click to expand...

I would keep them separate. It is unlikely that the base is exactly the same in both of these kits.

Quote: I would keep them separate. It is unlikely that the base is exactly the same in both of these kits.

Thanks cmason1957 for the quick reply, will keep them separate.