To kit or not to kit

So a total NEWBIE here and I may need some advice. All this reading posts of juice, grapes, kits, me making a press and saving some of the same types of bottles. Makes me think I should make a kit at least once to get some practice before I get a small crop of grapes next year.

So my question is.... Are kits good for experience building and good prep for dealing with just my crop of grapes. What type of kits are good for newbies like me. I like Cab's my wife likes Viognier. So if you had to start over knowing what you know now what would you do again and what would you do different? To kit or not to kit that is the question? Thank you all for your help and advice, I figure why reinvent the wheel.

Jason,

As is widely known on this forum, I am a fan of kits and juice buckets. I am not a new wine maker (started helping my Grandfather in 1950's) and I am experienced with making wine from grapes, other fruits, kits and juice buckets. There have been many posts on the forum regarding the relative merits of one method vs. the others, so I will not rehash that here. Your question seems to be where is the better place to start. I suggest that would be with a kit.

Kits have a lot of the "work" done for you, e.g. balancing pH, acidity, sugar, etc. that you would have to learn and do yourself from the beginning with fresh grapes. This requires attention and experience. Kits require less equipment, i.e. no need for a crusher/de-stemmer and press. Kits result in much less "mess" in the wine making cycle. Kits can be made at any time of the year and one can make many varieties of wine that are not available in fresh grapes. Kits will also give you an appreciation of the time frame and the process of wine making with minimal investment.

You mention that your wife likes Viognier. White wine kits or juice buckets are not too dissimilar from making a white wine from fresh grapes, i.e. there is not normally a need for the skins either for maceration or as part of the fermentation. For this and the other more obvious reason (if Momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy), in your situation, I would start with a good Viognier kit such as Cellar Craft Showcase Yakima Valley Viognier. Further, and concurrently, I suggest a good (at least 16 liters of juice with grape skins) red kit just so you have something to compare if and when you "take the plunge" to fresh grapes.

Good luck!

Although I have become a fan of kits, and feel that you can get a great wine from them, I am strictly a "from fruit" winemaker.

Winemaking is a family activity for me. There is no end of helpers and those that want to join me in making wine. In fact, "Crush" is a party that the whole family looks forward to. I have folks traveling thousands of miles to attend. With kits, most of the work is done, and where is the fun in that??

Over the years, I have invested a lot in good equipment. After those initial costs, making wine from fresh grapes is by far the cheapest way to go (currently from $3 to $4 per). I also feel that, when matching quality levels between kits and grapes, I feel that grapes are (marginally) better.

In addition to the social aspect, the end product results, and the lower cost, I simply like the idea that I have more control over the wine itself. For example, I can decide how long to macerate my reds or if I want to do a whole cluster press on my whites. These decisions are already made by kit manufacturers.

I know that this is a lot to think about. Ultimately, your decision should be based on your personal situation. Do you want this to be a family event? Do you have some helpers? Do you have the funds for equipment? Do you have the space??

I hope you give grapes a try, but whatever your decision might be, stay close to this site. We have helped scads of folks just like you and are more than willing to give advice and answer any questions you might have...

I can't say it any better than Rocky did, so I'll just concur.

The Yakima Viognier he mentioned is on my 'to-do list'. Regarding the Viognier, it has an 'f-pack' that you add toward the end of the process to add flavor and a hint of sweetness. I'd recommend adding 1/4-1/2 of that and taste testing to be sure you don't get something sweeter than you'd like. Then add more if you want it. Cellar Craft (Kenridge) used to have a Red Mountain Cab, but sadly no longer offers it. I think they replaced it with a Sonoma version which I'm sure is good. Whichever way you go on a red, I'd recommend at least 16 liters, as Rocky suggested. I'd also try to get one with a grape pack.

While you're working these kits, you can also practice up by getting a pH meter and testing your kit wines for pH and TA. You'll need this skill when making wine from grapes.

you have some great testimonials. start with kits and then grow into grapes. eventually you will be doing both. there are benefits in both methods. just grapes will limit you to local varieties, with kits you can encompass the world. grape wine making is also fun as stated. so why not both worlds. don't forget fruit wines

+1 with what everybody has said, I will also say that I have made the Showcase Viognier and it was spectacular. Some friends did a blind tasting of my Kit Viognier a few years ago and it won hands down against three other commercial Viognier wines. Kit's teach you the fermentation process but they don't teach you wine chemistry which you will need to learn by next year. Since you also live in the Mecca I would start looking around for winemaking clubs to join in so you can perhaps learn quicker and get access to equipment so you don't have to purchase your own. Look on Craigslist for grapes this year. See if you can volunteer this crush and learn all you can this year so you are better prepared for next year.

BlueStimulator said:

So a total NEWBIE here and I may need some advice. All this reading posts of juice, grapes, kits, me making a press and saving some of the same types of bottles. Makes me think I should make a kit at least once to get some practice before I get a small crop of grapes next year.

So my question is.... Are kits good for experience building and good prep for dealing with just my crop of grapes. What type of kits are good for newbies like me. I like Cab's my wife likes Viognier. So if you had to start over knowing what you know now what would you do again and what would you do different? To kit or not to kit that is the question? Thank you all for your help and advice, I figure why reinvent the wheel.

Click to expand...

I went at things differently when I started..........which has only been 3 yrs. ago.
I bought a 1 gal. winemaking kit. It came with a recipe book. I grabbed one of the recipes out of there that allowed me to use store-bought juice. Followed the directions/steps and had wine.
Second up was Dragon Blood.
Third was JAOM.
And so on............

I didn't make a kit(and have only made two of them) until I had been making wine for a year. No reason for that other than I was experimenting with other things/wines. Plus, I knew with a kit, for the most part, there wasn't a ton of learning involved as most everything is done for you.

Things I learned from starting out the way I did was a. don't put a tight lid with airlock on primary b. don't freak out if things don't happen exactly as the "book" said it would(this comes from my OCD personality) c. a few days here or there are not going to make or break the wine d. how to deal with fruit and a mesh bag
These are just some of the things off the top of my head that I learned by starting out by making wine from recipes and on my own without using a kit.

With that said, I finally went to a kit so I could get some dry reds built up in inventory. And I started with high end kits. I figured if I am going to make them, I might as well make good ones.
These are just a few thing

I agree with Rocky. It appears you are located in wine country, so I would procure about 10 lbs of grapes to add to your kit. That will add to flavor and body.

Thanks for pointing that out, Kevin. I did not notice that Jason lives in Yakima. Wow, he could not be in a better place for good white grapes! I predict he will be making wine for his bride next year from grapes. Good to have these young 'uns out there!

kits vs grapes

Both can be good. The only thing I would add to the thread is let it age at least a year before you make a judgement. All my kits wines from expensive to cheap have a distinct taste that grapes don't have. Even after three years my expensive kit has that slightly weird taste, still very good wine. Kits are a good way to learn how to make red wine with a lot less hassle, as others have posted whites are easy in kit or from fresh grapes. Good Luck.

Thank you all so much for all of your valued Input and keep the comments coming learning from all your wisdom is awesome. After this post you will now know almost all my wine making info.

So far I have been building up my equipment so my wife will never know the total cost or she might say just buy the wine. So far I have acquired a couple 3 gal, 5 gal and one 6 gal carboys (with air locks and bungs) a hydrometer, thermometer, big spoon, and have a couple of cases of like sized bottles.

I will need a primary fermentor, racking cane, corker, degasser, tubing. What other essentials should I need. I really want a Ph meter, TA meter Brix meter and a vacuum system. My storage will be in my garage shop that in winter can be kept cool not cold as I put in a small heater and downstairs in my daylight basement under the stairs I may make a small cellar (think Harry Potter closet).

This winter I plan on building a stainless steel counter (scrap stainless and 2x4) with a big free standing tub sink in the corner of my garage. All I have are the stubs for the sink and drain. What do you all like and dislike in your wine making area. A picture or two would be awesome. Since I am starting from scratch I can do what ever, the waiting may be hard for my OCD. As fresh for grapes some have seen my picsbut here they are again.

6 vines Viognier and adding 6 more (single wire due to space) 2 Petite Verdot, 2 Cab Franc and 10 Cab S (all double wire/cordon like 2 rows)

Hello My name is Jason and I may have a problem with wine.

Reds above whites below

Wow, nice looking.

Couple of thoughts/observations. It appears these vines are located close to a street.....or is this your private drive? Also, do you get snow in your area? enough that it needs plowed? if so, do they use sand and salt? if so, will this harm those vines?

DJ

The bad news is yes the Reds are by the street and the whites are on my private driveway. The good news is we only get snow a few times a year and were are on a big dead end street that gets plowed last. They do use some sand, salt and deicer but the plows usually just push the snow to the side of the street and the wall is 4 feet or so high. We only get 8.35 inches of rain a year and 23 inches of snow. I never even thought of the harm that could do to the vines. Great catch, I usually do the sidewalks/driveway with my snow blower and will keep it away from the vines. Thanks for you feed back

Do everything you can to keep the salt off the vines including a plastic tarp in the Winter if you get a big dump. Salt will kill anything except for weeds LOL

I do fresh grapes and juice during harvest times and kits or frozen must during the off season. I also do port kits in the fall for holiday gifts.

The nice thing about kits is that you can get juices/grapes from all over the planet, ie not what's in your backyard or surrounding community.

The nice thing about where you live is access to fresh grapes and juice.

So you could really do all of the above. My advice is buy more carboys, but that is my solution to every problem.

BlueStimulator said:

DJ

The bad news is yes the Reds are by the street and the whites are on my private driveway. The good news is we only get snow a few times a year and were are on a big dead end street that gets plowed last. They do use some sand, salt and deicer but the plows usually just push the snow to the side of the street and the wall is 4 feet or so high. We only get 8.35 inches of rain a year and 23 inches of snow. I never even thought of the harm that could do to the vines. Great catch, I usually do the sidewalks/driveway with my snow blower and will keep it away from the vines. Thanks for you feed back

Click to expand...

Good deal. This just came to mind as I used to plow snow for our city and know the damage that could have been done with the salt, etc.