When to pick elderberries

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Norton

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I am assuming that you want to wait until the berries are as ripe as possible before picking or deciding that you are losing the battle with the birds. Anyone know what an optimal Brix level is before picking?
 
Thanks for the link. Now most of mine are still green but the earliest bunch is at 15 Brix. I had thought 12 was more typical but I guess maybe not.
 

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