Confused about sugar addition

Hi all!

I had started a thread on here about a month ago.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49615

All the help in that thread was hugely appreciated.

As I stated in that thread.

I took a fruit wine kit and added sugar to bring the alcohol up.

So the math has confused me a bit.

I used the FermCalc Calculator and decided adding 4 lbs of dextrose corn sugar would yield me about 11.5%ABV.

I would have went higher but it was stated that the yeasts limits could be about 15% so I wanted to stay within safe limits.

Prior to adding any sugar the SG was 1.06

So the fact that the wine went all the way down to .990 on my hydrometer in the third week but by the 34th day on which I bottled the SG was up to 1.06 which is where it was prior to adding sugar is irrelevant?

Am I to trust the calculator and assume my wine has finished in around 11.5%?

It taste stronger to me.

The only thing you should trust is your hydrometer. The calculators are not 100%. What was your reading after adding the additional sugar?

Julie said:

The only thing you should trust is your hydrometer. The calculators are not 100%. What was your reading after adding the additional sugar?

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Well see that's my issue.

Original SG immediately after putting everything into Primary was 1.06

Added 1 lb of sugar SG went to 1.064

72 hours later SG was 1.022

I then added 1/3 of the F-Pack and 3 more pounds of Sugar.

and SG went to 1.04

around the 8th day I racked to secondary at 1.01

at around day 17 or 18 SG was .990

day 21 after degassing for about 48 hours SG was still at .990 and I stabilized and clarified.

Day 34 SG at 1.06 and I bottled.

It is impossible for you sg to jump from .990 to 1.060 unless you added more sugar after you stabilized.

Julie said:

It is impossible for you sg to jump from .990 to 1.060 unless you added more sugar after you stabilized.

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Sorry.

I added the other 2/3rd of F-Pack at same time as stabilizing and clarification. (day 21)

I am guessing you added the remainder of the fpac prior to bottling? That raised your sg, but had nothing to do with your alcohol, since it was never fermented.

So your alcohol (ignoring volume changes) (1.064 + 0.018 ) = 1.082 for an original sg. I am on my phone, so you will have to do the rest of the math yourself, but about 12-13%.

cmason1957 said:

I am guessing you added the remainder of the fpac prior to bottling? That raised your sg, but had nothing to do with your alcohol, since it was never fermented.

So your alcohol (ignoring volume changes) (1.064 + 0.018 ) = 1.082 for an original sg. I am on my phone, so you will have to do the rest of the math yourself, but about 12-13%.

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The math is what is confusing me.

Where did the .018 come from and why add it.

The increase in sg from you adding the 1/3 of the fpac. 1.022 to 1.040. Any time before or during fermentation sugar is added it increases the potential alcohol.

One cup of sugar will raise sg .018 per gallon.

Casper137 said:

Sorry.

I added the other 2/3rd of F-Pack at same time as stabilizing and clarification. (day 21)

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F-Pack shouldn't take it from .990 to 1.060. I believe they target around 1.030. 1.060 is too sweet.

one pound of sugar in five gallons will raise the ABV about 1%. you can work with that but follow your hydrometer for the most accurate information.

Julie said:

One cup of sugar will raise sg .018 per gallon.

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I made 6 gallons.

It doesn't look like with my numbers it did that.

I added a total of 4 pounds (not including the 1/3rd of the F-Pack) to the entire 6 gallons.

cmason1957 said:

The increase in sg from you adding the 1/3 of the fpac. 1.022 to 1.040. Any time before or during fermentation sugar is added it increases the potential alcohol.

Click to expand...

Thank you. Now I see where the .018 came from.

And I understand that adding sugar during fermentation will be converted to alcohol thats what I was trying to achieve.

I'm just brand new at this and am trying to wrap my head around the whole concept.

richmke said:

F-Pack shouldn't take it from .990 to 1.060. I believe they target around 1.030. 1.060 is too sweet.

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It doesnt taste very sweet at all.

Just a faint taste of fruit.

Which we like.

Brew and Wine Supply said:

one pound of sugar in five gallons will raise the ABV about 1%. you can work with that but follow your hydrometer for the most accurate information.

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Thank you.

Thats what I was told prior to adding the sugar, and being I was told that the yeasts limits are up to ~15% I added 4 lbs sugar to 6 gallons thinking I'd get close to 12%ABV.


But how do you calculate that when the hydrometer goes below 1

Casper137 said:

It doesnt taste very sweet at all.

Just a faint taste of fruit.

Which we like.

Click to expand...

Then it is not 1.060. Maybe 1.006, but not 1.060.

richmke said:

Then it is not 1.060. Maybe 1.006, but not 1.060.

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I have a feeling you are correct.

I'll have to open a bottle for scientific purposes to get a reading and drink the rest when I get home.

I was thinking the same thing as richmke, I bet your reading is 1.006. That would give you a hint of sweetness and flavor.

As far as the hydrometer going below 1.000, you just add to the initial reading.
For example, you start out at 1.100, this would give you a 13%ABV if ran dry to 1.000. So you end up going to .990 lets say. Now you add another 1.7 for a total of 14.7ABV.
My hydrometer came with a little chart showing the different ABV readings associated with the hydrometer readings.
I am sure someone on here will give you a formula to use.

wineforfun said:

I was thinking the same thing as richmke, I bet your reading is 1.006. That would give you a hint of sweetness and flavor.

As far as the hydrometer going below 1.000, you just add to the initial reading.
For example, you start out at 1.100, this would give you a 13%ABV if ran dry to 1.000. So you end up going to .990 lets say. Now you add another 1.7 for a total of 14.7ABV.
My hydrometer came with a little chart showing the different ABV readings associated with the hydrometer readings.
I am sure someone on here will give you a formula to use.

Click to expand...

My hydrometer has those marks as well.

But those marks I think are based on if your wine finished at 1.

Not .990.

That's why I'm trying to see how accurate they are.

Like if I use FermCalc and it says to bring the wine's ABV to 12% add 4 lbs sugar.

Does the calculator assume the wine will finish at 1 to make its calculation?

And if so how do I calculate how much additional alcohol was created by the additional drop from 1 to .990?

I feel like I'm in grade 8 working with integers again.

Here is a calculation that you can use and check against FermCalc. Starting gravity minus final gravity multiply by 131 equals ABV.

Casper137 said:

My hydrometer has those marks as well.

But those marks I think are based on if your wine finished at 1.

Not .990.

That's why I'm trying to see how accurate they are.

Like if I use FermCalc and it says to bring the wine's ABV to 12% add 4 lbs sugar.

Does the calculator assume the wine will finish at 1 to make its calculation?

And if so how do I calculate how much additional alcohol was created by the additional drop from 1 to .990?

I feel like I'm in grade 8 working with integers again.

Click to expand...

I think you may have missed what I said(or I didn't say it correctly). My hydrometer came with a piece of paper which has a chart on it. It has numbers associated with the different readings you take off your hydrometer.

The marks on the hydrometer aren't based off anything other than SG readings. I never use FermCalc or anything like that, I only use my hydrometer and it's readings.

Again, if your hydrometer drops to .990, according to my chart that came with my hydrometer, you add 1.7% ABV to your already established reading.
So, if you started at 1.100(13% ABV) you now have 14.7% ABV.

Get used to using your hydrometer to figure things out, ie: ABV, sugar additions, etc.

I have made a few post about this in the past, but if you are not accounting for the volume change, ( unless the volume change is sufficiently small compared to the total volume) when you add sugars, it is really not sufficient to just add SG points do the SG equation.

seth8530 said:

I have made a few post about this in the past, but if you are not accounting for the volume change, ( unless the volume change is sufficiently small compared to the total volume) when you add sugars, it is really not sufficient to just add SG points do the SG equation.

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Seth,
Not sure if your post is in reference to my post(s). If not, disregard. If so, again, maybe I wasn't being clear(which is possible ). I am saying in the beginning, if I start with an SG of 1.085 and add sugar up to 1.100(which I would know by taking hydrometer readings along the way), I now have my starting number. If it happens to ferment down to .990, this is where I "add" my additional ABV number in.