orange wine and extract

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slowbrew

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Alright y'all, collectively we (mostly you, I just did what you said) saved my cranberry wine. Now I need your help on extracts.

I have an orange that is about 3 months along, I've racked it twice and it's clearing nicely. I have it at room temp in the North East, so currently about 70*F. I have sampled the wine and I am rather disappointed. It still needs to clear a bit, but it taste like... Well like it's wine toffoo. It is a simple (not aweful but but not great) white. I expected a twinge of orange flavor but it taste like a wine blank. Sorta like, here is a tasteless wine, add flavor and enjoy... Is this right? Anyone in orange world have the same experience? It was brewed with ec-1118 and 9.5lbs suger to total volume of 5 gal.

So I want to add extract. I purchased it from my local grocer, "pure orange extract", ingredients are alcohol (79%), water, and oil of orange.

I sampled out 4 oz of wine, and added extract to taste. As it worked out I did a bunch of math and conversions, (google did it, I just typed in the figures, full disclosure...) And it seems like I need about 470 ml extract to 4.5 gallons wine.

Does this sound right? That's like 16oz extract to 4.5 gal wine. Seems like a lot. Has anyone used orange extract and do you know your ratios? Also when is the best time to add it, and should I change my wine temp? If so to what?


Okay, that's it. Just those millions questions.

Thanks guys.
this was typed on my phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
 
Have not used orange BUT I will say the ones I have used [black current, apple, cherry]will overpower if not careful. The flavor will greatly increase with just a couple months of aging so I would stop while flavor is a little weak. I only added 2-4 ozs/5gallons. Add slowly and taste often. Have fun!
 
16oz sound WAY out of line for an extract. I also have 5 gals going right now about 2 months old and the Orange flavor is very very slight. Everything I've read suggests at least a year aging and every fruit I've done loses it's original flavor for a while then eventually comes back to some degree. Maybe some patience and a little sugar will help it come around down the road.
Mike
 
We are talking apples to oranges(no pun intended) I am sure as our recipes won't be the same but when I made orange juice wine, from store bought orange juice, I believe I added 1/2 - 3/4oz. of Watkins extract per gallon. I would have to check notes for exact number. This gave it a nice orange flavor without overpowering it.
I also backsweetened with some sugar and let it age for a few weeks on some dark chocolate.

I agree that 16oz. will be way too much and probably destroy that wine.
 
My first instinct would be that if you have to add so much extract, why bother? How much orange juice did you use in your original recipe?

slowbrew said:
Alright y'all, collectively we (mostly you, I just did what you said) saved my cranberry wine. Now I need your help on extracts.

I have an orange that is about 3 months along, I've racked it twice and it's clearing nicely. I have it at room temp in the North East, so currently about 70*F. I have sampled the wine and I am rather disappointed. It still needs to clear a bit, but it taste like... Well like it's wine toffoo. It is a simple (not aweful but but not great) white. I expected a twinge of orange flavor but it taste like a wine blank. Sorta like, here is a tasteless wine, add flavor and enjoy... Is this right? Anyone in orange world have the same experience? It was brewed with ec-1118 and 9.5lbs suger to total volume of 5 gal.

So I want to add extract. I purchased it from my local grocer, "pure orange extract", ingredients are alcohol (79%), water, and oil of orange.

I sampled out 4 oz of wine, and added extract to taste. As it worked out I did a bunch of math and conversions, (google did it, I just typed in the figures, full disclosure...) And it seems like I need about 470 ml extract to 4.5 gallons wine.

Does this sound right? That's like 16oz extract to 4.5 gal wine. Seems like a lot. Has anyone used orange extract and do you know your ratios? Also when is the best time to add it, and should I change my wine temp? If so to what?


Okay, that's it. Just those millions questions.

Thanks guys.
this was typed on my phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
Click to expand...
 
sorry for the delayed response. My recipe was
45 oranges (about 12 lbs)
10lbs sugar
2 tsp tannin powder (farther breaks down enzymes)
4 tabs campden tabs (crushed to powder kills existing natural yeasts)
water to 5 gallons.
Stir vigorously, cover loosely and set aside 24-48hrs.

Don't use yeast at this time, the campden tablet a will kill your yeast wait the 48 HRS

1oz yeast, rehydrated, I used a dry wine yeast, EC-1118
4 tsp yeast nutiant

starting gravity 1.195
About 12%

Cover comepletely but loosely with a towl until fermenting stops. About 10 days. When fermenting stops transfer to secondary and add air lock.
 
I'm thinking a different path. I don 't think adding a bunch of extract is going to be create a pleasing taste. I'm new to this, but as I recall reading, orange juice don't leave a very strong flavor after it has fermented. Instead of back sweetening with sugar why not try a using orange juice instead? It won't be crystal clear, but I'm thinking it will taste better.

BTW, I just racked a batch that was part oranges. Can barely taste the orange flavor.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49869



slowbrew said:
sorry for the delayed response. My recipe was
45 oranges (about 12 lbs)
10lbs sugar
2 tsp tannin powder (farther breaks down enzymes)
4 tabs campden tabs (crushed to powder kills existing natural yeasts)
water to 5 gallons.
Stir vigorously, cover loosely and set aside 24-48hrs.

Don't use yeast at this time, the campden tablet a will kill your yeast wait the 48 HRS

1oz yeast, rehydrated, I used a dry wine yeast, EC-1118
4 tsp yeast nutiant

starting gravity 1.195
About 12%

Cover comepletely but loosely with a towl until fermenting stops. About 10 days. When fermenting stops transfer to secondary and add air lock.
Click to expand...
 
I have never made anything with that high of an sg but I would assume the alcohol would over power any citrus or orange flavor at all. Actually if the yeast would live long enough that would come out to around 26 abv and it seems like u just didn't use enough oranges and to much sugar. What was your final gravity? And did u freeze the oranges. I have a gallon of orange skeeter pee clearing right now with 32 oz lemon and one can of frozen orange juice. But personally I'd ad lemon.
 
slowbrew said:
starting gravity 1.195
About 12%
Click to expand...

jamesjr said:
I have never made anything with that high of an sg ...

Actually if the yeast would live long enough that would come out to around 26 abv
Click to expand...

I believe he meant "starting gravity 1.095." Fermcalc says that is close to what you get when you add 10 lbs sugar to 4.5 gallons of water.
 
sour_grapes said:
I believe he meant "starting gravity 1.095." Fermcalc says that is close to what you get when you add 10 lbs sugar to 4.5 gallons of water.
Click to expand...

Ya, sorry, 1.095. Ma bad. ...Also, wtf is skeeter pee? and I'm interested in the lemon, what can I expect to gain from that and do you have any recipe suggestions?
 
Skeeter pee is just simply lemon wine but u can ad any flavor to it blueberry strawberry etc. It has its complete own forum on here its so popular and cheap it only cost the price of 3 32 oz bottles of lemon juice.
 
Personally im not a wine drinker I prefer beer but skeeter pee aka lemon wine is my go to wine. I only make one gallon batches of wine but skeeter pee goes quick also if I mess up a gallon of wine I just put a bunch of lemon juice in it and call it orange skeeter pee cranberry skeeter pee etc.
 
jamesjr said:
Personally im not a wine drinker I prefer beer but skeeter pee aka lemon wine is my go to wine. I only make one gallon batches of wine but skeeter pee goes quick also if I mess up a gallon of wine I just put a bunch of lemon juice in it and call it orange skeeter pee cranberry skeeter pee etc.
Click to expand...

I also am a beer guy, I have a porter on tap and a German light on deck with a heffawisen on fermentation. The wine is for my wife, I have two going now, a five gal cranberry and the infernal demon pee.::

I like the idea of backsweetening with OJ. Any suggestions on consintrated vs ready to drink? Do I add campden tablets to prevent farther fermentation from any living yeasties? And when do I do it durring this process? Just prior to bottaling? After the last racking? I have a nice 12% I'd like to keep. ...(whispering tone) I've never backsweetend.

Thanks guys.
 
Im honestly not a pro and I only make one gallon batches when it comes to wine and I rarely backsweeten. But I kno if u add an oj concentrate it will spark up more fermentation so u would have to kill off the yeast and it would take more time to clear. When I back sweeten I use a non fermentable sweetener. Wich there been study's that it can still ferment over long periods of time and alot of people dont do it but I do just because I dont have the stuff on hand to kill off the yeast
 
slowbrew said:
I also am a beer guy, I have a porter on tap and a German light on deck with a heffawisen on fermentation. The wine is for my wife, I have two going now, a five gal cranberry and the infernal demon pee.::

I like the idea of backsweetening with OJ. Any suggestions on consintrated vs ready to drink? Do I add campden tablets to prevent farther fermentation from any living yeasties? And when do I do it durring this process? Just prior to bottaling? After the last racking? I have a nice 12% I'd like to keep. ...(whispering tone) I've never backsweetend.

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

First off, and I haven't read the whole thread to see if you already did this, but you need to add sorbate if you are going to backsweeten. You do this after you have cleared the wine.

As far as adding concentrate, sugar, simple syrup, etc., they will all possibly spark refermentation without sorbate added.

If you are trying to get a "sweeter" taste to it, I would recommend adding sugar over OJ concentrate. The concentrate/OJ won't really "sweeten" it that much and will definitely cloud things up, if you already have it cleared.

I made a wine from orange juice, already reconstituted with water. After I fermented it dry, cleared and added sorbate, I then added sugar to it to get it to the desired sweetness I was looking for.
 
wineforfun said:
First off, and I haven't read the whole thread to see if you already did this, but you need to add sorbate if you are going to backsweeten. You do this after you have cleared the wine.

As far as adding concentrate, sugar, simple syrup, etc., they will all possibly spark refermentation without sorbate added.

If you are trying to get a "sweeter" taste to it, I would recommend adding sugar over OJ concentrate. The concentrate/OJ won't really "sweeten" it that much and will definitely cloud things up, if you already have it cleared.

I made a wine from orange juice, already reconstituted with water. After I fermented it dry, cleared and added sorbate, I then added sugar to it to get it to the desired sweetness I was looking for.
Click to expand...

I'm with you dj, earlier in the tread I said that the wine is super Boring. there is no "orange" at all. It may as well be wine made from cotton fuzz. I am trying to infuse it with flavor by backsweetening . Sorbate kills the yeast? And you said add sorbate post clearing, prior to backsweetening is that after your final racking? Do I need to give the sorbate any alone time with the wine or is it ready to party? 1 and how long do you wait after backsweetening until you bottle? I don't want any basement orange bombs going off.
 
The orange wine seems like a pretty basic one. What was the body of this wine just using oranges and sugar? I might have put in a few bananas.

It's one to try!

-Marc
 
slowbrew said:
I'm with you dj, earlier in the tread I said that the wine is super Boring. there is no "orange" at all. It may as well be wine made from cotton fuzz. I am trying to infuse it with flavor by backsweetening . Sorbate kills the yeast? And you said add sorbate post clearing, prior to backsweetening is that after your final racking? Do I need to give the sorbate any alone time with the wine or is it ready to party? 1 and how long do you wait after backsweetening until you bottle? I don't want any basement orange bombs going off.
Click to expand...

When I made mine, I backsweetened and added some orange extract. I would have to look at notes but it wasn't very much extract. I then racked it onto some Lindt 85% dark chocolate for 2 weeks. It ended up with a pretty unique flavor.

Sorbate helps deter any rogue yeasts left behind from re-fermenting with the sugar addition from backsweetening.

I, and most, do it post clearing so you can rid your wine of all the yeast and leftovers that you possibly can.

I usually add the sorbate and then backsweeten right away. I have added it and waited a day or two but so far, I haven't had any issues backsweetening right away.

I normally bottle within a week of backsweetening. I usually sorbate/backsweeten one weekend and then bottle the next. This is just how I do it. I am sure you could bottle right away or let it sit longer than one week.
 

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