would this work for degassing

Last week I read something about transferring wine from one carboy to another under pressure as a method of degassing. This got me thinking so I followed it up.

I have acquired a mechanical small pump (£8 0n e bay) that fits on the end of my drill and when I put one tube into a carboy of water and switch on the pump, it will empty that 5 gallon of water to the other carboy which is on the same table, in under a minute.

Would this be a good idea to degass as its so easy to use, in fact I used it last week with a sediment trap attached, to transfer out one of my finished wines into a clean carboy with a tap ready to bottle.

Seems to me to be a great labour saving device if it works and the fact that the tubes can be submerged, there will be very little air reintroduction, or would it be better to let the transferred wine fall from a height to get the foam to a max.

Im just putting it out there as an idea which I am sure someone else has thought of already, lol.

Sampvt, I think that would be a great way to move wine from one carboy to another, but I don't feel that it would have a significant effect on de-gassing. That is a transfer pump, probably a centrifugal, peristaltic or impeller design that just moves the wine from one vessel to another not under vacuum. These pumps begin by moving a small amount of air (the air trapped in the tube) and then drawing the liquid behind.

I would also be concerned that the material from which the pump is made is food safe and that the pump could be adequately cleaned and sanitized. One of the benefits of the vacuum pump design is that the liquid does not pass through the pump but is merely drawn from the contributing vessel to the receiving vessel by the vacuum created. There are transfer pumps that are food safe. I doubt that one of those drill mounted designs are I would investigate that before trying it out on wine.

Rocky said:

Sampvt, I think that would be a great way to move wine from one carboy to another, but I don't feel that it would have a significant effect on de-gassing. That is a transfer pump, probably a centrifugal, peristaltic or impeller design that just moves the wine from one vessel to another not under vacuum. These pumps begin by moving a small amount of air (the air trapped in the tube) and then drawing the liquid behind.

I would also be concerned that the material from which the pump is made is food safe and that the pump could be adequately cleaned and sanitized. One of the benefits of the vacuum pump design is that the liquid does not pass through the pump but is merely drawn from the contributing vessel to the receiving vessel by the vacuum created. There are transfer pumps that are food safe. I doubt that one of those drill mounted designs are I would investigate that before trying it out on wine.

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On the question of food safe, well its a mechanical device with no oil, just a blade that whizzes round and I have an old fermenting bucket full of sanitising fluid which I put both tubes into and whizz away so the inside of the pump and tubes gets cleaned then I transfer my tubes to another clan water bucket and flush it all out.

I would have thought that transferring liquid from one to another vessel would have the effect of degassing, maybe I am wrong but I tried it with 2 liters of coke from a 1 gallon demijohn to the other and after 3 passes from one to the other, the coke was a flat as anything.

I suspect the cola degassed from "splash racking" rather than moving the material through the pump. The use of vacuum certainly hastens CO2 removal. I do share Rocky's concerns about food save, in particular lubricant contamination.

BC

cimbaliw said:

I suspect the cola degassed from "splash racking" rather than moving the material through the pump. The use of vacuum certainly hastens CO2 removal. I do share Rocky's concerns about food save, in particular lubricant contamination.

BC

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The only thing that comes in contact with the wine is the blades and that's it. The bearings are sealed in a plastic housing.

Can someone explain splash racking, because this sounds like what I did with the coke.

sampvt said:

The only thing that comes in contact with the wine is the blades and that's it.

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You also have the tubing, and the housing. How are the blades sealed from the shaft that connects to your drill? Typically, you have some type of O ring, and maybe a sealant. Are those food safe?

You also have the issue of cleaning. How do you know if the innards of the pump (blades and all) are clean?

richmke said:

You also have the tubing, and the housing. How are the blades sealed from the shaft that connects to your drill? Typically, you have some type of O ring, and maybe a sealant. Are those food safe?

You also have the issue of cleaning. How do you know if the innards of the pump (blades and all) are clean?

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Its a simple nylon bush bearing and the blades and innards get a good soaking in solution and rinsed with fresh water so I cant see a problem. Anyway its going off topic.......will splashing the mixture from carboy to carboy degass it. That's all I wanted to know.

sampvt said:

will splashing the mixture from carboy to carboy degass it.

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"splashing" will, as any agitation will draw out CO2. However, how you splash is important. "splashing" in the presence of O2 will introduce O2 into the wine. That is not good. "Splashing" in a vacuum is preferred.

Note: Merely transferring from carboy to carboy is not necessarily "splashing".

richmke said:

"splashing" will, as any agitation will draw out CO2. However, how you splash is important. "splashing" in the presence of O2 will introduce O2 into the wine. That is not good. "Splashing" in a vacuum is preferred.

Note: Merely transferring from carboy to carboy is not necessarily "splashing".

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Ive worked on that problem. I have a 2 way stopper for my carboy that is getting the brew. I will connect the second outlet to my vacuum pump which will be switched on for a while, then splash into a vacuumed carboy, taking care to do it in stages as to not totally drain the vacuum by going to fast. Hopefully that will help it.

I know it will be impossible to create a total vacuum, but the way I have it worked out might help

sampvt said:

Ive worked on that problem. I have a 2 way stopper for my carboy that is getting the brew. I will connect the second outlet to my vacuum pump which will be switched on for a while, then splash into a vacuumed carboy, taking care to do it in stages as to not totally drain the vacuum by going to fast. Hopefully that will help it.

I know it will be impossible to create a total vacuum, but the way I have it worked out might help

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Could you just use your vacuum pump to do the transfer? If so that would serve the two purposes of transfer and degassing.

bkisel said:

Could you just use your vacuum pump to do the transfer? If so that would serve the two purposes of transfer and degassing.

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Forgive me for sounding thick but how would that be set up. I have a feeling that if the empty carboy was below the full one, that would be like syphoning wouldn't it and if they were side by side, would the .8bar motor of my vacuum pump work. I was under the impression transfer by vacuum was done by far stronger pumps. If you can advise on the set up, that would be great.

I don't believe my eyes, I have just rigged it all up and it works. In fact on the u tube video the guy said he uses a .5 bar or 15hg pump, mine is stronger, its a .8bar pump so I am happy. The question now begs.....how many times do I need to do this transferring to totally degass my wine, therein lies the question, lol.

Now I need to invest in another glass carboy to limit the air contact as my other vessels are all plastic.

Thanks for prompting me to do this.

I'm jealous! Wish I had an inexpensive vacuum pump that would do that.

There are many folks here that do vacuum transfers and degassing that can say for sure but I'd guess that 2-3 transfers while sheet racking should to the job.

bkisel said:

I'm jealous! Wish I had an inexpensive vacuum pump that would do that.

There are many folks here that do vacuum transfers and degassing that can say for sure but I'd guess that 2-3 transfers while sheet racking should to the job.

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Bill my degassing pump is a simple food saver with an external hose which is used for vacuuming Tupperware type boxes. Its a .8 bar one and cost me £50. Look on e bay, they are cheap mate. By the way, what in heavens name is sheet racking. All this jargon is confusing, lol.

sampvt said:

Bill my degassing pump is a simple food saver with an external hose which is used for vacuuming Tupperware type boxes. Its a .8 bar one and cost me £50. Look on e bay, they are cheap mate. By the way, what in heavens name is sheet racking. All this jargon is confusing, lol.

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The outlet side of the siphon hose is placed near or against the receiving carboy up near the shoulder while racking. This will cause the wine to flow down in a "sheet" to the bottom of the carboy. I use this method on my first rack with the hope of getting more CO2 out of the wine than if I placed the hose end down on the bottom of the carboy yet minimizing the introduction of O2 you'd likely get with splash racking. Probably not necessary ifin you're vacuum racking - just go ahead and splash rack.

bkisel said:

The outlet side of the siphon hose is placed near or against the receiving carboy up near the shoulder while racking. This will cause the wine to flow down in a "sheet" to the bottom of the carboy. I use this method on my first rack with the hope of getting more CO2 out of the wine than if I placed the hose end down on the bottom of the carboy yet minimizing the introduction of O2 you'd likely get with splash racking. Probably not necessary ifin you're vacuum racking - just go ahead and splash rack.

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Here is a great picture of what Bill is referring to
http://allinonewinepump.com/product/wine-splash-racking-cane/

vacuumpumpman said:

Here is a great picture of what Bill is referring to
http://allinonewinepump.com/product/wine-splash-racking-cane/

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Steve, you really know how to hurt a guy. I've got to hold the hose in position during the whole time it takes to do a gravity rack.