Wine yeast in Bread making

I was making bagels the other day, and when I quarter and then halve the rising dough to make proper sized bagels, I lose some of the rise. Would wine yeast give me additional rise and maybe taste?

Next time I make bagels this needs to be explored. Anybody here experiment with this idea?

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Ever hear of the old saying... the right tool for the right job?????

JohnT said:

Ever hear of the old saying... the right tool for the right job?????

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JohnT said:

Ever hear of the old saying... the right tool for the right job?????

Click to expand...

Ever hear of MacGyver?

Is wine yeast going to ruin the bagels?

Not sure I follow the problem. If you "lose" the rise you simply allow the bread to rise again... Never made bread using wine yeast but that would be like using your computer as a paper weight... It will certainly work but it is rather an expensive paper weight. Wine yeast will certainly make the bread rise... but bread yeast costs considerably less... bread, wine and beer yeast are all from the same strain (lager yeast is a different strain, I believe)

This is a great basic description and history of use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast

BernardSmith said:

Not sure I follow the problem. If you "lose" the rise you simply allow the bread to rise again... Never made bread using wine yeast but that would be like using your computer as a paper weight... It will certainly work but it is rather an expensive paper weight. Wine yeast will certainly make the bread rise... but bread yeast costs considerably less... bread, wine and beer yeast are all from the same strain (lager yeast is a different strain, I believe)

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The CO2 is no longer contained. No containment no additional rise. My idea is to have extra rise so during cutting, shaping, and boiling, the bagel dough has plenty of trapped gas for a light full shaped bagel.

I agree with Bernardsmith. In bread making you "punch" it down anyway and let it rise again;part of the process. If shaping, then just let it rise again and bake.

Terry

montanaWineGuy said:

The CO2 is no longer contained. No containment no additional rise. My idea is to have extra rise so during cutting, shaping, and boiling, the bagel dough has plenty of trapped gas for a light full shaped bagel.

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The gluten strands trap the CO2. It is not possible that if you make bread (or bagels) with a protein rich flour that that flour cannot hold the CO2. You must be doing something else to the bread that prevents the yeast from producing CO2.. but I cannot think what you would need to do to flour to prevent it from trapping the CO2.. For bagels - though - you want the highest protein flour you can get..(I would add wheat gluten to the dough). That is what makes a NY bagel a bagel...
and for the record, I bake bread at least twice a week.

BernardSmith said:

The gluten strands trap the CO2. It is not possible that if you make bread (or bagels) with a protein rich flour that that flour cannot hold the CO2. You must be doing something else to the bread that prevents the yeast from producing CO2.. but I cannot think what you would need to do to flour to prevent it from trapping the CO2.. For bagels - though - you want the highest protein flour you can get..(I would add wheat gluten to the dough). That is what makes a NY bagel a bagel...
and for the record, I bake bread at least twice a week.

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Thanks! I'll look into the Wheat Gluten. Full disclosure, I've only been making bread for a year+, bagels for a few months. Still though, my bagels are far better then I can buy at Walmart (there is not any good shopping in N.W. Montana where I am), but still they are far less then I've had when a good bagel-only shop was close by.

My bagels are now on the Bagels The Movie #6, and are vastly improving. My last batch (garlic/raisin) showed good rise and were of good shape after boiling but thinned out during baking. Still good eating, but a disappointment the same.

willing to share you recipe? The problem may be in your ingredients and/or technique

BernardSmith said:

willing to share you recipe? The problem may be in your ingredients and/or technique

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This is my recipe. http://allrecipes.com/recipe/real-homemade-bagels/

Only real difference is I roll the 8 (not 6) individual bagels into a ball, flatten gently, then poke my finger and spin the dough on my finger to enlarge the hole. I also bake at 425, only cause 475 seems to high. And I skip the honey.

At room temperature 2 hours rising time seems excessive to me. That may in fact reduce the elasticity of the gluten by over stretching (rising more than double its initial size) . I would allow the dough to rise for an hour at room temperature and then punch down and allow to rise a second time for about 50 minutes.. The punching down and second rising prevents the dough from over stretching. If you allow the dough to quietly rise in the fridge then it can rise over-night and be brought slowly to room temperature and allowed to double in size Also, there is no suggestion that you use bread flour or a flour with higher gluten content than the usual 4 g of protein.