issues with making beer and wine in the same space?

I got talked into doing a batch of beer. I have a 5 gallon bucket of brown stuff fermenting in the same space working space as my wine, including my wine barrels. Should I have any concerns?

Scientifically, I don't see what issues there might be. I fermented a beer and wine right next to each other. The beer turned out great and the wine tastes good.

It could depend on how you consume it. If after bottling it lasts no more than two weeks, you should be concerned. That would last me three weeks easy. Moderation is the key.

My only concern would be if you were brewing lambics. I brew and make wines in the same room, on the same table and indeed at the same time... never had any problem

If you normally just cover your wine with a towel or loose lid in the bucket, I wouldn't do that with the beer, I'd keep it under airlock the whole time. Unless you are using a top cropping English Ale yeast that forms a protective layer (skin) on the top of the fermenting beer.

Also, don't mix up the batches and accidentally bottle and cork the beer, the corks won't stay in very long.

Thx for the tip ceeaton, this is my first batch if beer. It had 48 hours with an open lid, but just put an airlock on it.

I do beer in the same room as my wine but I don't have them in close contact and only when everything is under airlock.I also wouldn't recommend using the same pail for fermenting as you do your wines.

I have used my primary wine bucket to make a few batches of beer (larger head space for some of the more vigorous yeasts), and haven't noticed any issues. They were heavier/darker porters and stouts, but I didn't notice any difference, other than I didn't have to use a blow off tube for the primary. @vernsgal - What should I be concerned about if I use a fermenter for both wine and beer?

ceeaton said:

I have used my primary wine bucket to make a few batches of beer (larger head space for some of the more vigorous yeasts), and haven't noticed any issues. They were heavier/darker porters and stouts, but I didn't notice any difference, other than I didn't have to use a blow off tube for the primary. @vernsgal - What should I be concerned about if I use a fermenter for both wine and beer?

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I read here ( I couldn't find the post )that the plastic absorbs the smell sometimes of the beer and if using the same pail for wine it could pick up an off taste.
I just keep an extra ferment pail to use for my beer .The glass carboys don't matter, as with my hoses because they're rinsed right away.I don't know if it actually does make a difference but I figure better safe than sorry.

I bought some glass carboys from a Beer Brewer, and he threw in his pails. I couldn't get the smell of beer out of the pails, so I never used them for making wine.

So, your wines don't leave an aroma in the bucket? Mine sure do. I have been making beer and wine using the same bucket for over two years and haven't had an instance of flavors or aromas crossing one way or the other. To emphasize the point, I fermented a malbec, which left a strong aroma and followed it with a golden lager without issue. Going the other way, I had a Belgian dark strong ale, a lot of malt and yeast derived aromas, that preceded a moscato, also without hint of crossover.

My thanks for the replies. My concern was more about having random beer yeast hang around and mess with my grapes or somehow impact my barrels. Sounds like there is nothing to worry about.

NorCal, run over to our Beer Making topic in Other Topics and join in!

I've been making beer and wine in the same place, with the same equipment, and have had no issues at all. I just wash and sanitize my stuff like always.

If you get a beer smell in your bucket or carboy after you have washed it using a good cleaner/sanitizer, just leave it open a day and it will dissipate. That has been my experience. But I have started wine right off in a sanitized bucket where the slight smell of a beer batch lingered. No issues.

I am still learning beer. But it is possible to towel-cover your beer primary if you plan to use a secondary fermenter, with no issues. You need to peek and see when the krausen, the cap of foam that forms on top of your fermenting beer, has fallen. When it falls back into the beer, you must go to secondary.

My learning so far says that's the only real change between closed and airlocked beer vs. an open ferment with a towel covering. A closed primary can be held until bottling if you desire, while open fermentation requires you rack it and is specific about when, so you do not lose the CO2 protection the krausen affords.

Whether or not to use a secondary depends on your brewing style. I do use one because I believe it results in clearer beer without the need for clearing agents. A popular brew sked is 1 week primary/3 weeks secondary/3 weeks bottle condition.

In my case, I find that major fermentation is done in my ales in 3 days, so I transfer then and follow the 3/3 sked afterward. If bottle conditioning beer is left in warmer areas (75-80 or more) , you can sometimes get by with a 3/2 sked or even 3/1.

Jim, I can see all the brewers needing to be picked up off the floor after reading your claim that they can brew beer in open buckets loosely covered with cloth. They are more concerned with infection than a team of ER doctors who learn that their walls are covered with MRSA. And yet , and yet...They will brew in carboys with a foot or two of headroom just as long as they have that bung in there with a blow off tube during the first few days and then an airlock so they can count the rate of bubbles burbling through..

BernardSmith said:

Jim, I can see all the brewers needing to be picked up off the floor after reading your claim that they can brew beer in open buckets loosely covered with cloth. They are more concerned with infection than a team of ER doctors who learn that their walls are covered with MRSA. And yet , and yet...They will brew in carboys with a foot or two of headroom just as long as they have that bung in there with a blow off tube during the first few days and then an airlock so they can count the rate of bubbles burbling through..

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Beer people are a crazy, paranoid bunch,
I got alot of response on another forum when I mentioned I have opened a bucket and checked and SG many times. I have also racked numerous times and even separated out batches.

Dont fear an infection, it just makes the beer a bit sour!
For the record I made a strong pale ale which left my bucket smelling.
I soaked the bucket with a bunch of oxiclean. A day later I just sanatized with Star San and the lingering smell was minimal.

We are all crazy and paranoid in our own and different ways.. But I do think brewers neuroses are not unfounded (note the double negative). Beer has a far higher pH than wine and a far lower (typically) ABV. It is therefore far more prone to infections. Add to this, the fact (I think that it is a fact) that grains in and of themselves harbor all kinds of bacteria and mold that are not so innocuous and which can in a moment simply overtake the brewing process - I have yet to understand why brewers eschew K-meta and wine makers embrace sulfur dioxide. Is it not effective with grain? If it is , then the need to drop the temperature from boiling (212F ) to around 70 F in 15 minutes or less to avoid infection of the wort before pitching the yeast would disappear in the blink of an eye...

BernardSmith said:

We are all crazy and paranoid in our own and different ways.. But I do think brewers neuroses are not unfounded (note the double negative). Beer has a far higher pH than wine and a far lower (typically) ABV. It is therefore far more prone to infections. Add to this, the fact (I think that it is a fact) that grains in and of themselves harbor all kinds of bacteria and mold that are not so innocuous and which can in a moment simply overtake the brewing process - I have yet to understand why brewers eschew K-meta and wine makers embrace sulfur dioxide. Is it not effective with grain? If it is , then the need to drop the temperature from boiling (212F ) to around 70 F in 15 minutes or less to avoid infection of the wort before pitching the yeast would disappear in the blink of an eye...

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I agree completely, it is more prone to infection. The pioneering craft brewery here, which got to be a huge business with bottled beers in all the stores, went under due to just one infected batch they shipped. Tasted awful and then no one would buy their beer. So I can see the paranoia.

I am already super-fastidious about cleanliness and sanitation from winemaking, where the finished wine may preserve itself but an infection along the way can cause all kinds of off-flavors.

The fermentation people of any kind who I see get in trouble are the ones with 5-6 of their own product in their bellies when they do their work. This can lead to the worst possible outcome, the "it's bottled - I'll clean that all up later" disease.

I have seen many winemakers and many brewers fall into this trap. Especially with beer, then it is much harder to clean everything top-notch the next time around, when the pressure is already on to skip ahead and get going with the so-called "fun part."

Lo and behold, something then goes wrong.

Wine and beer production at any scale is an industrial process. My mantra is, do it safely while sober and toast myself afterward - when everything is nice and clean and put back away.

As far as brewing in a bucket, some extract kit makers even mention it in their instructions (See #2): http://www.coopers.com.au/static/media/uploads/orig_-under_lid_instructions.pdf

Key is to get the beer out of the primary when the foam falls, though. It is much less forgiving than sealed primary.

Totally agree with your point about DWB (drunk while brewing)... and I never knew that Coopers advocated open bucket fermentation... Eye-opening. I can see some of my brewing colleagues choking on their home brew... (or perhaps seeing that as another nail to hammer into the Coopers coffin) .

But on another note, the Australians - perhaps because of their need to preserve water - tend to go in for no chill brewing: the order of the day here is that you get the temperature of five gallons of boiling wort to drop about 150 F in 15 minutes or thereabouts and the preferred method seems to be to transfer the heat out of the wort by running cold water (another problem for the Australians) through copper pipes arrayed in the kettle. If the addition of K-meta to the wort would inhibit spoilage in the same way we say it works with all manner of fruit and fruit juice then allowing the wort to cool at its own rate (without the Australian trick of transferring the wort into heat resistant plastic "cubes" which they fill to the rim and then seal) would make brewing (IMO) so much easier.... I could mash one night, boil on another and then pitch the yeast the next day...

Elmer said:

Beer people are a crazy, paranoid bunch,
I got alot of response on another forum when I mentioned I have opened a bucket and checked and SG many times. I have also racked numerous times and even separated out batches.

Dont fear an infection, it just makes the beer a bit sour!
For the record I made a strong pale ale which left my bucket smelling.
I soaked the bucket with a bunch of oxiclean. A day later I just sanatized with Star San and the lingering smell was minimal.

Click to expand...

Yes, we are a crazy paranoid bunch. But after spending up to eight hours on an all grain batch, to have it ruined by an infection, I really don't think we are all that paranoid. Maybe your infections produce a "sour" beer, but I've had totally undrinkable ones before. As stated in earlier posts the low abv and high pH make a great playground for all kinds of nasties.

Many breweries do have open fermenters (search on images of Yorkshire Stone squares if you get the chance). I've done several batches that have turned out great, but with a true top cropping English Ale yeast that forms a protective skin after fermentation is over. I do move to a secondary as soon as the fermentation nears it's terminal point. As @jswody said it helps to get a clearer final product and keeps oxidation down once the CO2 production has dropped.