Help with improving my wine please.

Hello all. Have been making wine now for about 3-4 years. No kits, just going by what I'd read and dumb luck . I have now reached a point I'd like to improve my wine. I have never taken a ph level for acid, but plan on starting. I pick my berries when they are at a point of ripeness just before the bugs get them. I taste them. I have no press, but plan on buying one next year before harvest season; so thus far I mush and put in the primary. My method:
Mush, add K-meta for 5 gallon batches, 0.5tsp/gal yeast nutrient, 8# sugar. Wait 24 hrs, then add pectic enzyme and EC-1118 yeast.
I currently have 10 gallons of raspberry/cherry in carboy; 15 gallons of blackberry in carboy; 10 gallons of full flavor grape in carboy; 10 gallons of medium bodied in carboy, and 5 gallons of grape/cherry/elderberry (I racked into carboy at 1.02 SG per elderberry recommendation I'd read on an elderberry thread. All others I waited until SG reached 1.0 or less)
I tasted the medium bodied grape and it is flat. Can I purchase strips, test the acid level and add acid now while it's in the carboy first racking? I was also thinking of purchasing a bottle of elderberry concentrate and adding to the medium bodied grape when I rack again to help give it some flavor.
Also, I see people say to check ph and acid level as if it were different; my understanding of ph level is checking to see if something is acid or base and how much in either direction it is.
Oh, and yes, I do like rocket fuel, just want more flavor at lift off
zack

Hi Zack

First reaction when reading your process is that you aren't giving the pectic enzyme much time to work. Try adding it 12 hours after Kmeta and 12 hrs before adding the yeast. Getting more out of the fruit you've added seems worthwhile to me, esp since it's a lot of work. I"m also hoping you add sugar to a specific SG, not just following recipe and adding 8 lb each time. Balance of ABV and flavor is very delicate. Higher ABV often totally overpowers flavor, so you may need to scale back ABV if you are looking to up the flavor.

Pam in cinti

Thank you Pam. I will do as you suggest with the pectic enzyme. I came across the 8# sugar by trial and error. My first wine making attempts started with 12# sugar, way too sweet. Then started scaling back by 2# until I hit 8# and found that to be totally converted by the time I bottle.

Zack read several of the articles in the Tutorial Section on this sites home page. You can learn a lot from there. Even a small item can effect your wine making.

You can use a ph meter to take acid readings, just need an additional solution. Give all ingredients time to work including aging and back sweetening. Don't rush.

Test strips are too vague for what you need. Use a good ph meter. Take notes along the way so you may reference later.

Lots of very knowledgable folks on here. Read other sites with a grain of salt as many new winemakers start there then come here to save their wine. Good ingredients, good and accurate knowledge combined with patience can provide excellent wines.

Thanks Steve. Have read some of the tutorials I've found here. Yes, a good ph meter is something I need to invest in next, along with a good press.

Zack,
You can get more out of your fruit if you freeze it first. More juice, more flavor. Breaks the fruit fibers down and lets the pectic enzime do its thing easier. Arne.

Lots of good advice given. Also wanted to mention choosing yeasts for specific characteristics they impart to a wine. But some yeast are needy, unlike 1118. So it would be wise to step feed just to always be safe. Additionally, most yeasts are slower than 1118 so have a little more patience before deciding you have a problem. personally I use a lot of QA23 and D47 for whites, RC212 for reds, and 71B whenever making a wine from a fruit with a lot of malic acid (blackberries elderberries apples etc). So many things to learn and each little change learned will improve the final product.

Pam in cinti

pH and TA are not the same. One measures quantity of acid and one measures quality of acid so to speak.

More here:

http://blog.eckraus.com/blog/wine-m...nce-between-ph-and-titratable-acidity-in-wine

zack67360 said:

I see people say to check ph and acid level as if it were different; my understanding of ph level is checking to see if something is acid or base and how much in either direction it is.

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Also, you may have low flavor not only because the PH is too high, but it will also be low if you're adding water. Only high brix grapes need a water addition to control brix--and only some fruits need water addition. But if you're using high acid grapes like Concord, Niagara, Catawba, etc. then you add no water.

For the wines you mentioned, taking and adjusting the PH within range works much better. Taste the juice as you adjust the PH and go with what tastes good to you. Adjusting by TA is not the best way to go. TA is not total acid--it is titratable acid. Meaning the acid available to react with sodium hydroxide. It has no real predictable relationship to PH as TA varies with varietal, locale, growing conditions, etc. PH is the strength of the acid and relates more to flavor and has a powerful effect on the efficiency of sulpher dioxide and prevents oxidation and bacterial infection. I never adjust a wine by TA and don't even measure it. PH is much more important.

Turock said:

I never adjust a wine by TA and don't even measure it. PH is much more important.

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I think both are important myself. I add Tartaric if needed and watch both pH and TA I usually have stubborn Syrah and Petit Syrah from the Lodi AVA and pH is usually around 4.0 to start. Acid is added until I reach a TA of around 0.8 and then I quit. pH is usually around 3.7 or 3.8. Stick a fork in it as it's done.

What good does it do you to have a perfect pH of say 3.5-3.6 but you had to add so much acid that your tongue puckers as well as your mouth to the taste?

I use tartaric acid when I add acid as I've read that is a less tart acid and mellows well with aging. Can I add acid to the carboy to increase the acid level, and if so does anyone have an idea of how much to add to 5 gallons to bring the numbers down by .1 at a time?

zack67360 said:

does anyone have an idea of how much to add to 5 gallons to bring the numbers down by .1 at a time?

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Which number?

3.8 grams Tartaric Acid per US Gallon raises TA by + 1 g/L (or .1%)

I had an acid testing kit in my wine supplies from when I got started and never used, so got it out and checked the 5 gallons I thought was flat and it took 8-9 cc to change the color to a definite grey, so according to the directions the TA is 8-9%. Maybe my taste buds are burned out?

How old is your NaOH? How has it been stored? If it is older than 12 mo I would not trust it or the results.

Yes, older than 12 mos. Stored in original containers, sealed tight in a cabinet in the house under controlled environment. Nearest wine supply store is about 90 miles away in Tulsa, will have to let the wine age until can get away and make the trip.

Made it to Tulsa yesterday to bet some supplies of which I bought pH strips. The digital reader will have to wait until medical bills are paid. Maybe on my Christmas list Anyhow, my raspberry/cherry pH-3.2; Blackberry-3.6; Grape/black cherry/elderberry-3.6; grape-3.2.

zack67360 said:

I use tartaric acid when I add acid as I've read that is a less tart acid and mellows well with aging. Can I add acid to the carboy to increase the acid level, and if so does anyone have an idea of how much to add to 5 gallons to bring the numbers down by .1 at a time?

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I know for a fact that some companies use tartaric acid in the brewing process. However I think it's used more for champagne. I was on a champagne tour recently and one of the owners of a wine-yard confirmed this.