Propagating Norton Grapes

I would like to propagate some new Norton (Cynthiana) vines from cuttings but I have read that this doesn't work. Has anyone had experience with this, is it true? If so, do you know an alternative method?

Justintime said:

I would like to propagate some new Norton (Cynthiana) vines from cuttings but I have read that this doesn't work. Has anyone had experience with this, is it true? If so, do you know an alternative method?

Click to expand...

I have read the same thing; the success rate can be very, very low. There is a large vineyard/winery in Virginia that hired a specialist to try and improve the percentage of success in propagating Norton. They got the percentage up, but still not anywhere near what other varieties reach.
Sorry, I don't remember the name of the vineyard, but it is the central vineyard written about in the book "Wild Vines". I don't know if they will share their techniques or not.

If you find out more, please let us know.

The best way to propagate Norton is layering. You take one vine (or a few) and bend the shoots down to the ground and cover them with dirt. When they sprout back up, cut them from the parent vine and transplant.

robie said:

I have read the same thing; the success rate can be very, very low. There is a large vineyard/winery in Virginia that hired a specialist to try and improve the percentage of success in propagating Norton. They got the percentage up, but still not anywhere near what other varieties reach.
Sorry, I don't remember the name of the vineyard, but it is the central vineyard written about in the book "Wild Vines". I don't know if they will share their techniques or not.

If you find out more, please let us know.

Click to expand...

I think it was here:
http://www.chrysaliswine.com/

A friend of mine plays there in a jazz quartet during summer weekends. Its a beautiful winery that makes some very nice wines.

Thank you all

Boatboy24 said:

I think it was here:
http://www.chrysaliswine.com/

A friend of mine plays there in a jazz quartet during summer weekends. Its a beautiful winery that makes some very nice wines.

Click to expand...

Yep, that is the winery. They have started to have much better than typical success propagating the Norton.

Thanks

Yes, they are claiming 70% rooting success, which is much better than the 0% I've had. I have three cuttings in water right now, maybe I'll get 70% this time, but I doubt it.

deboard said:

Yes, they are claiming 70% rooting success, which is much better than the 0% I've had. I have three cuttings in water right now, maybe I'll get 70% this time, but I doubt it.

Click to expand...

Did they tell you how they were saving 70%?

No, I just read it in their 'history' section.

I've heard rooting green cuttings under mist is way more effective than trying to do it with dormant cuttings like most other grapes. I'll be trying it in about a month.

When I was reading stuff about aeroponics, grape propagation from green cuttings come up, I dont have anything with enough green growth to try yet but the low pressure aeroponics system is very simple to make or people are using a ultra sonic fogger to make a very fine mist, all cheap stuff or you could do true high pressure aeroponics, pressure pump, small mic filters, nozzles measured by micron it's just gets more expensive real quick but thats the real deal.

I have a homemade cloner I made out of a storage bin. I'll try that, too, I guess.

questions about layering Norton/Cyanthiana

saddlebronze said:

The best way to propagate Norton is layering. You take one vine (or a few) and bend the shoots down to the ground and cover them with dirt. When they sprout back up, cut them from the parent vine and transplant.

Click to expand...

I realize this is an old thread, but I have been searching for specific information about propagation of Norton/Cynthiana for hours. This thread is one of the few I have found that offers anything other than vague references to layering.

This spring I buried a couple of last year's shoots when the buds were just beginning to swell. Now I have lots of fresh green shoots, some more than a foot long. I've pruned all the new shoots from the lower trunks of most of my vines - just not sure if I should also prune back excess vegetation from my layered vines?

My main question is: How do I tell when it's time to sever the layered vines from the parent plant?

Should I wait a year (next spring) or look for some sign that the vine is ready to make it on it's own? I could dig them up and check for roots, but that sounds like rough handling for a baby vine.

Saddlebronze says to cut them from the parent plant when they "sprout back up" - does that mean to wait until new shoots come out of the ground from the buried vines?

And after I cut the layered vines from the parent plant, should they be transplanted immediately, or should I let the vine grow on it's own for a while before trying to transplant it?

wait until vine is dormant in spring and then transplant as it would be if purchased from a nursery. dig gently when ready to sever around the root growth,if layered vine is long enough underground,maybe able to cut root segment in half and get two vines. one towards the mother plant and one past the point of layer. good luck.

salcoco, Thanks!

In case someone else comes across this thread while looking for similar information, I'll pass on another link which was provided to me by Jennifer McCloud at Chrysalis Vineyards:
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/propagate-grape-vine-layering-21880.html

BTW, she says they do not propagate by layering at Chrysalis. I did not follow up to find out what method they use. She also provided a link to this YouTube video which shows air layering (though not specifically with Norton/Cynthiana):
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJuUW_SyhMw[/ame]

I had good results (about 25% rooted from all kinds of cuttings, big, little, anything) from cuttings under mist. I used a cheap solar mister timer that I *THINK* is off the market now.

This winter I rooted 8/20 (40%) from (large- 10-12 inch) dormant cuttings.

I used a heat mat set to 85*, and dipped them in Dip n Grow.

Chrysalis uses HUGE bottom-heated trays in rented temperature controlled trailers, so that the root zone calluses and starts the rooting process while the tops are still cold-dormant. They bottom-heat root thousands and thousands at a time.

They also sell them, so if you want to just buy them instaed of investing in heat mats and misters and stuff, you can get them from Chrysalis and be guaranteed you got the right stuff that makes some seriously good wine

Hi,

On the subject of dormant vines, you might try taking the cuttings early on. There are chemicals in the plant that cause it to stay dormant and if it's in the cuttings you intend to root, you should get extra time before the cuttings start to push their buds and drain the cuttings of their nutrient reserves. Just a thought.

Thanks to all who replied. Right now I need only 2 vines to fill out the gaps in my rows, so I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. Maybe after I retire I'll have more time to expand the vineyard.

In addition to the 2 vines I've laid down for layering, I plan to try the air layering method (plastic bottle) shown in the video.

With the air layering, be sure you put drainage holes at the bottom of the bottle. Possibly you might need to scrape back lightly the bark in a one inch band. Right where the middle of the bottle will go. Also don't let the dirt dry out, keep it watered. Air layering doesn't just work with grapes. It also works with hardwood, fruit trees, and many tropical varieties. Put several holes in the large end so you can suspend it with string. After a month to six weeks you should see evidence of roots.

saddlebronze said:

The best way to propagate Norton is layering. You take one vine (or a few) and bend the shoots down to the ground and cover them with dirt. When they sprout back up, cut them from the parent vine and transplant.

Click to expand...

I have done this, and the success rate is very high using this method. It roots even faster than one might think.