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Old 01-11-2017, 09:02 AM   #1
Rob_S
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Hi folks,

Wondering what you find would be the total SO2 added to red wine before you end up detecting it in the final product which leads to a chemical taste?

I've read 100 ppm, 120 ppm, and 150 ppm. I now have a wine in a barrel that is loosing about 20 ppm of free SO2 every 4 weeks. Since the pH is about 3.63I need to keep the free SO2 at 54 ppm for 0.8 molecular. I've added so far 50 ppm at the crush, after the MLF the free SO2 was down to 20 ppm so added 34ppm, now added another 24 ppm as it had dropped to 30 ppm in the barrel after one month. So I think I should only leave it in the barrel for another month, and might have to add another 20 ppm at that point and that would bring my total additions of SO2 to 128 ppm. Thinking that might be the limit or surpassing it a bit before detecting too much SO2?

Rob

 
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:21 AM   #2
NorCal
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I've added twice that without issue.

 
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:55 AM   #3
jburtner
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Here's an interesting SO2 doc that may or may not help -
http://srjcstaff.santarosa.edu/~jhen...%20Dioxide.pdf

It says legal commercial limit for total SO2 is 300 PPM and SO2>100 PPM can affect taste... Lots of info in that doc.

I would guess that it varies depending on the wine and environment too and 100-200 may be near threshold depending on those details.

Where does that put us in general if bulk ageing for a year and adding 1/4 tsp every three months so 1.0tsp over the period of a year?

Cheers!
-jb

 
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:09 PM   #4
NorCal
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1/4 tsp = 50ppm in 5 gallons.

For me: once after crush, once after mlf racking, then every 6 weeks until bottling. I check with my Vinmetrica and do 200-300ppm total adds without any perceived impact.

Note: we have a higher pH fruit than most and even with preferment adjustment, the pH still tends to be high.

 
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:15 PM   #5
Rob_S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jburtner View Post
Here's an interesting SO2 doc that may or may not help -
http://srjcstaff.santarosa.edu/~jhen...%20Dioxide.pdf

It says legal commercial limit for total SO2 is 300 PPM and SO2>100 PPM can affect taste... Lots of info in that doc.

I would guess that it varies depending on the wine and environment too and 100-200 may be near threshold depending on those details.

Where does that put us in general if bulk ageing for a year and adding 1/4 tsp every three months so 1.0tsp over the period of a year?


Cheers!
-jb
Maybe I'll take it out of the barrel soon and accept that as it's limit as time spending under oak. In a wine with a lower pH that will be another matter and could spend more time under oak.

Sounds like one tsp into say 5 gallons over a year would be adding 250 ppm if I've done the calculation correctly and would think that would be past the sensory threshold.

In your article you quote it says if you aim for molecular above 0.7 you end up with burnt match taste. I thought a molecular higher than that say at 0.8 was ok and quite common, from what I've read elsewhere and in this calculation table it can be set to 0.8. I've aimed for 0.8 in several batches and kept the to total SO2 below 100 at wines with lower pH like 3.5 and wine turned out fine without burnt match taste.

https://winemakermag.com/1301-sulfite-calculator

Thanks everyone for your input.

Rob

 
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:03 PM   #6
Johnd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_S View Post
Maybe I'll take it out of the barrel soon and accept that as it's limit as time spending under oak. In a wine with a lower pH that will be another matter and could spend more time under oak.

Sounds like one tsp into say 5 gallons over a year would be adding 250 ppm if I've done the calculation correctly and would think that would be past the sensory threshold.

In your article you quote it says if you aim for molecular above 0.7 you end up with burnt match taste. I thought a molecular higher than that say at 0.8 was ok and quite common, from what I've read elsewhere and in this calculation table it can be set to 0.8. I've aimed for 0.8 in several batches and kept the to total SO2 below 100 at wines with lower pH like 3.5 and wine turned out fine without burnt match taste.

https://winemakermag.com/1301-sulfite-calculator

Thanks everyone for your input.

Rob
If you barrel age for years, and many do, you'll put in way more than those limits, but much of it becomes bound so2, and free so2 is what I believe the limits address. I barrel age for six months, and during the course of that time, add 50 ppm monthly, well over 300, but most of it is bound. Several more months in a carboy, more SO2, but still undetectable, at least to me.
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