Wine from Just plain grapes?

JohnT said:

These bugs, are they fruit flies?

They are know carriers of acetobacter (the most common family of bacteria that will convert wine to vinegar). One or two fruit flies should not really be a concern, but you do want to try and keep as many of those little bastards out as possible.

It is also good to try and keep as many of the seeds out of the wine as possible. Seeds will add a type of tannin that most people do not like (IMHO, it makes the wine bitter).

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I dont think too many critters got in. Im also not sure if theyre fruit flies. Ill check tomorrow night online to see if the pictures match up. I'll also try to get the seeds out tomorrow night. The good thing is that the seeds settle to the bottom, so if I sanitize my arms I can just reach in and get handfuls out...

Hand stripping clusters of grapes is no fun, but it looks like you did a good job of having only the berries in the must. Hopefully fermentation will start on its own shortly.

With time and temperature bacteria will continue to grow on your remaining grapes, so the sooner you can get them crushed and properly treated with SO2, the better.

My two biggest concerns with your ferment and aging of your all natural wine would be VA development and H2S. Research the best ways to prevent these two things.

Nice start!

I'm not trying to disagree with anyone, but unless the seeds are green, I would leave them in your natural wine, without any other protection you will need every bit of tannin naturally available. I agree about the potential VA and H2S, I think it is a roll of the dice at this point.

Checked on my natural must this morning. No visible ferment going on. Took a sample to check the SG and nothing changed. Color is gorgeous. But theres a smell off it, not sure if its a yeasty smell or "grapes going bad" smell. I guess I'll wait and see

I'll second what Stickman said. You want to prevent H2S, because it will take a lot more additives to fix than it will to prevent. You seem concerned about the SO2 additions, so skip them but still consider some early nutrient to help the yeast along. They should consume it as part of the ferment, so there won't be much, if any, left in the final wine.

Also without SO2, the tannin is all that protects your wine. Leave it on the skins longer, not less. Not sure about the seeds. I normally transfer to another fermenter half way along (delestage) and leave them behind, but then I add SO2 at the end.

Good luck. If it works a natural ferment is excellent, but you need to be clean, and apply good practices in all areas.

I wouldn't worry yet - they usually take a couple of days to get going. And I pulled 50kg of grapes off the stems by hand the first year. Got it done in a day, but never again. I'm lucky my wife is still talking to me.

Brub58 said:

And I pulled 50kg of grapes off the stems by hand the first year. Got it done in a day, but never again. I'm lucky my wife is still talking to me.

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Took me 2 days and my wife is barely talking to me. And every time she does, it contains some variation of "You've been squeezing grapes every free second!!!"

Anyway, squeezed the second half today and added SO2. I only got 15 liters of must out of this so I am going to try ordering more grapes to get up to at least 20. I ordered 2 15 liter carboys as my 20s and 25s will be too big.
I also ordered a wine press. Its expensive though. Anybody have any ideas on how to press my grapes after primary without a press and without running myself ragged?
The SG on this half is a bit higher, 1.094. I don't think I need to add any sugar as if I get the SG down to .995, the paper that my hydrometer came with says my wine will be more than 14% ABV.
Wish me luck! Once again, any comments, advice or constructive criticism is appreciated and requested!

I ordered more grapes, but they'll only be available tomorrow at the earliest. Is it a problem to add this to my must? I treated my must with SO2 already. So if I add grapes to it before pitching the yeast, then Im guessing I have to add more SO2 and then wait another 24 hours in order to add the yeast. Correct?

mennyg19 said:

Im guessing I have to add more SO2 and then wait another 24 hours in order to add the yeast. Correct?

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I'd add yeast to what you've got to get it started, and sulphite the new grapes separately. Then add the new grapes to the current batch once the current batch is actively fermenting. You really don't want the grapes sitting there too long once you've crushed them. Unless you are doing a natural fermentation, of course, but that's the other batch.

What is the current temperature of the natural must?

stickman said:

what is the current temperature of the natural must?

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24c, 75.2f

Pitched the yeast this morning in the non-natural must. I added the yeast to 100 degree water for 15 mins and then added it. Was that correct?
Natural must had all the grape skin floating to the top so I punched it down. Resulted in some bubbles rising up. Might be the ferment kicking in... I hope this works

Ok, so how long after pitching my yeast is it supposed to start looking like its fizzing? Cause i pitched 4 hours ago and it aint moving

If you don't see anything after 3 or 4 days I would add yeast again. Remember you have to punch down the cap a few times a day. Squeezing grapes, thats why people use to wash their feet GOOD them stomp on the grapes.

If you have the grapes in a bag - that bag is probably floating at the top. Push it to the side slightly and if the fermentation has begun you'll probably see foam and perhaps some active bubbling. Like TonyR said, a little stir and pushing that bag under the juice will help keep those grapes moist and breaking down.

And 4 hours is no time at all. Give it 24 to 48 hours at least before you will see activity.

I don't have the grapes in a bag.
So a little update and a question:
I pushed the grapes skins down as they all floated to the top. I saw some bubbles so I wanted to see if there was any change on the hydrometer. Take out a sample, drop the hydrometer in, and.... Its too thick? Anywhere I leave go of the hydrometer it stays there. Well, not exactly, but if I touch the hydrometer it will move down to 1.080, if I pull it up a bit, it goes all the way to 1.110. Is this normal???
This happened basically on both must, tho the additive one was a bit better.
Also, when I stirred the additive one I saw much more bubbles than the natural one, so it seems that's going pretty well.

Thank you, Menny, for this. I had the same question and the same observation. I tried inserting the hydrometer into the must,and it just sits there, I can take my choice of several readings, so how to find natural buoyancy?

I assume that your issue is that you are trying to take a reading, but the cap is preventing free movement of the hydrometer.

If this is the case, I normally first strain a sample of the must into a clear cylinder, then take a reading from that.

JohnT said:

I assume that your issue is that you are trying to take a reading, but the cap is preventing free movement of the hydrometer.

If this is the case, I normally first strain a sample of the must into a clear cylinder, then take a reading from that.

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that's what I did... wine thief, test tube and a crazy hydrometer reading

Thanks, JohnT, but that begs the question of how to strain a sample. Do you use a big ladle, a funnel, and cheesecloth? (My thought.) A lot of work. How do you sterilize everything? Do you return the liquid to the fermenting container? Do you return the stained pulp to the fermenting container? It seems like it would be quite difficult to extract. I've got about 8 - 10 inches of pulp to go through to get to liquid.

Rhetoric said:

Thanks, JohnT, but that begs the question of how to strain a sample. Do you use a big ladle, a funnel, and cheesecloth? (My thought.) A lot of work. How do you sterilize everything? Do you return the liquid to the fermenting container? Do you return the stained pulp to the fermenting container? It seems like it would be quite difficult to extract. I've got about 8 - 10 inches of pulp to go through to get to liquid.

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Believe it or not, I use my fingers. I dip the cylinder into the wine with my fingers covering it. I then pull my fingers away just a crack to allow the wine into the tube, but not the seeds or skins.