Does Secindary Airspace make darker wine?

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I_Drank_It

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Does Secondary Airspace make darker wine?

I have a batch of muscadine wine that was started on 6 Sep 10. I have two full gallon jugs and a gallon jug that is ~half full. I just racked the batch for the second time and noticed that wine in the not-full jug was substantially darker than the other two. All of this wine is from the same batch. One difference is the fact that the partial jug was the last one siphoned to from the primary...which means it did get more lees/sediment than the other two. The only other difference is the partial jug does have more air space. Is this typical of your batches? I am concerned about using wine from the partial jug to top off my other two when I rack. I don't want to ruin the two full jugs if I've messed up with the third.
 
Welcome aboard!!

It could be just b/c there is more sediment transferred over in the last jug. It could also be oxidizing too - if there is a lot of headspace in the secondary. If fermentation is complete it is important to keep the vessels topped up properly to keep the O2 exposure out.

Did you add in any k-meta?
 
Yes, you partial jug has been oxidized. It is important to keep head space to a minimum after fermentation has completed. During active fermentation your yeast is giving off so much CO2 that this is not a concern however after your wine is dry and there is not as much CO2 being produced then oxidation ca occur.
your wine is still drinkable, it may have some off slight flavors and a definite color change but it is still drinkable. I wouldn't serve it to an obsessive wine drinker for they will notice. I also would not use it to top up the other two jugs with. For future reference, I like to use Fuze juice bottles to store extra wine in for topping up. they are smaller and a #6.5 bung fits them.
 
I have a batch of muscadine wine that was started on 6 Sep 10. I have two full gallon jugs and a gallon jug that is ~half full. I just racked the batch for the second time and noticed that wine in the not-full jug was substantially darker than the other two. All of this wine is from the same batch. One difference is the fact that the partial jug was the last one siphoned to from the primary...which means it did get more lees/sediment than the other two. The only other difference is the partial jug does have more air space. Is this typical of your batches? I am concerned about using wine from the partial jug to top off my other two when I rack. I don't want to ruin the two full jugs if I've messed up with the third.
Take the wine out of the 1/2 FULL. Put that into a 1.5ltr bottle
 
Try a taste of the wine from the 1/2 full bottle, then try a taste from one of the others. It's most likely oxidized, and you'll taste the difference. It happened to me in my top-up once, and I tossed the top-up bottle. It tasted so stale and bad compared to the non-oxidized wine I didn't even want it mixed with the rest.

If you think it tastes oxidized, I'd toss it.
 
the practice that Tom said is the best for most people without a doubt...but it is also a sign that you did not properly stabilize your wine for storage..after oxidation you were headed for spoilage...(side story) in fact, thousands of yrs ago wines were left to darken in earthen ware mostly submerged underground w only their tops above ground....fermentations took up to 18 months....additionally the time added reductive aspects to the wine

another side story which i have mentioned before...last yr i had 1.5 gallons of my first white that i released in a three gallon carboy from right after secondary ferment until the day that i bottled...remember this is a white wine....it was properly stabilized and there was neither appearance difference nor flavor profile difference between it and its sister in the large full tank

what does this tell us? i will let you decide what it tells you..what it proved to me is that oxygen is less a threat than improper stabilization...furthermore the white in the half full carboy showed me ahead of time what the wine in the full tank was going to be.....this indicates something!
 
I thought there would be enough CO2 to keep oxidation from occurring. It does make sense that after you rack a time or two, there won't be enough CO2 produced in a larger secondary.
 
Al said, "...what does this tell us? I will let you decide what it tells you..what it proved to me is that oxygen is less a threat than improper stabilization..."

I always like when we hear from Al F. He knows about stabilization, sulfite, and oxygen. I firmly believe that a lack of sulfite is a much bigger enemy than O2. I don't say not to top off, that would be foolish. But be sure to follow proper sulfiting and stabilization practices. :b
 
I Drank It...there are reductive techniques that shoot for..yes actually shoot for a darkening in wine......

you said that you thought there wa enough c02 to protect the wine...that would only be early on in the wine's life......pressing of grapes will remove much co2....length of aging and temp changes will also remove co2...in THAT case you must have almost no headpsace at all or else you will most always have oxidation.....headspace is a killer unless you have stabilized....

Hi Lurker..others no about all of it as well..not just me for sure...i just like to see whats what in wine making and occasionally i see something worth sharing

in the end, i believe O2 is more a friend of our wine making than not :b
 
I agree with Al too. Sulfites are much more important. We let wine age in vessels that let air in for over a year sometimes. 02 can be very detrimental to our wine but only if proper S02 levels are not observed.
 
Sorry, I'm not up-to-speed on terms...I did use campden tablets (K-meta) when I put it in the primary. I'm using Jack Keller's Muscadine recipe #1.

As for the "stabilization," I'm not sure what I should have done differently other than follow Tom's advice of incorporating a smaller secondary to reduce air space.

I've searched a bit on "wine stabilization" but haven't found anything other than the practice of racking and possibly adding Potassium Sorbate to stop fermentation prior to bottling.

Any links or details on stabilization would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
do a google on amphorae, sunk into the ground, for red and white wine fermentations

interesting stuff from the past
 

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