Other Tweeking Cheap Kits

joeswine said:

It may never come out super clear don't worry about it, it's a red care more about the taste.

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So, I added sparkeloid and PE and still couldn't see through it, flashlight and all but I did see a layer of sediment so I decided to rack it and in my siphon it was beautiful garnet, clear....I think it did clear nicely but I've never done a red and I guess I figured I'd see through the carboy like the whites! It needs some topping up with another bottle of cab sauv to bulk age a bit before bottling. I had a MT French oak spiral in there, should I continue to add oak spirals when I rack? Also should I add sulphites at any point? And at what time interval?

So you made the kit, followed directions, added the sulphites (and maybe sorbate) that came with the kit, added some sparkeloid and Pectic enzyme, then racked again very soon thereafter. Is that about right?? At this point you might want to add an extra 1/4 tsp of Metabisulphite (assuming 5 or 6 gallons), top up and bulk age for 3 months or so, ignoring anything that falls out, it won't cause problems. Rack again, add more metabisulphite then for sure and bottle. As for the oak, that one is up to you, I would taste it and if you think it is almost to the point of over oaked, not add any, otherwise add it and take a small taste every 2 or 3 weeks.

I often rack my reds 3 times, then bottle. They do get a bit dark, I usually use a cup of medium toast French Oak chips. I add K meta on the clarification stage right after primary. Then if I am going to bulk age, more K meta after the third racking which always leaves a small amount of Lee’s behind (when I would normally bottle).

It. Takes time, time

Can you rack down?
Do you use nitrogen?
These are good tools for your tool box

I use the canned gas, I think it is a Nitrogen/Argon mix for gassing opened wine bottles. Just use it to fill the headspace which is usually quite small. I am also using a water lock on my bulk aging carboy, have to make sure it stays full of water. The 3 rackings that I usually do, takes a few extra weeks, so it does allow a bit of extra aging in the carboy. I bulk age in the carboy for about 12 to 18 months. I fill the water lock with sanitizer for those.

mocha said:

So, I added sparkeloid and PE and still couldn't see through it, flashlight and all but I did see a layer of sediment so I decided to rack it and in my siphon it was beautiful garnet, clear....I think it did clear nicely but I've never done a red and I guess I figured I'd see through the carboy like the whites! It needs some topping up with another bottle of cab sauv to bulk age a bit before bottling. I had a MT French oak spiral in there, should I continue to add oak spirals when I rack? Also should I add sulphites at any point? And at what time interval?

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The oak spirals give up most of their flavor in 6-8 weeks. Taste it after that amount of time. If you want more oak, add another stick. If you think it's too "oaky" give it some time to rest, as the oak flavor tends to slightly dissipate over time.

J9 ,that's a solid plan..I usually bottle age.

Joe, so do I. I have the one carboy of Cabernet Sauvignon bulk aging. We actually picked the grapes for that, so it’s a special case.

jpwatkins9 said:

I use the canned gas, I think it is a Nitrogen/Argon mix for gassing opened wine bottles. Just use it to fill the headspace which is usually quite small. I am also using a water lock on my bulk aging carboy, have to make sure it stays full of water. The 3 rackings that I usually do, takes a few extra weeks, so it does allow a bit of extra aging in the carboy. I bulk age in the carboy for about 12 to 18 months. I fill the water lock with sanitizer for those.

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I've never heard of adding gas. I wouldn't know how to do that, is there a thread on this? I was planning on bulk aging for 6 months, I have heard of racking every 3 months, should I add k meta at each racking and bottling? The wine is young but it tastes great!

joeswine said:

J9 ,that's a solid plan..I usually bottle age.

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Do you bottle age, I thought you like to bulk age in carboy? Do you find a significant difference in bulk aging as opposed to letting it age in bottles? My whites I always just bottle when the kit is done but I figured I'd need to bulk age reds to get those layers of flavor and nose in there.

The gas is available in most wine shops in small cans, has a little straw like a WD40 can. Used to gas a wine that you arn't going to finish up in one sitting. I do most of the kits using bottle aging, but I sometimes do let them go for a few extra months, usually reds, but also an have done it on Rose’. I do find the the extra aging sometimes works and seems to smooth out the wines resulting in a deeper taste. May be just me though. Gotta do what is right for you. I do like to experiment and will try different things with 3 of the same kits. My long term bulk aging is with a Cabernet Sauvignon that we actually picked the grapes for, so not a kit. That is in a carboy and will be for a year or so.

I'm about to start my first kit, a Winexpert Vintner's Reserve Gewurztraminer (10L kit), and I although I did a search on this thread, I didn't see any suggested tweaks for gewurz... Is that because they generally do well as is with the kit instructions, no changes?

For example, this kit has a flavor pack and I saw a lot of suggestions to add at least part of the flavor pack at the beginning, for other types of wine. Would that make a difference here?

One change I am considering is making up only 5.5 gallons, rather than the full 6. Although I have a 6.5-gal fermenting bucket, I bought only a 5-gal carboy because I was planning to do 5-gal batches of beer, not 6-gal batches of wine.... A half gallon less water shouldn't make that much difference, should it? (I figured I would lose about that much when racking to secondary; then I don't have to top off.) Or should I do the full 6, and put the extra gallon in a 1-gal glass jug? And top off as needed...

Thanks for any input anyone has to share!

DIYer said:

I'm about to start my first kit, a Winexpert Vintner's Reserve Gewurztraminer (10L kit), and I although I did a search on this thread, I didn't see any suggested tweaks for gewurz... Is that because they generally do well as is with the kit instructions, no changes?

For example, this kit has a flavor pack and I saw a lot of suggestions to add at least part of the flavor pack at the beginning, for other types of wine. Would that make a difference here?

One change I am considering is making up only 5.5 gallons, rather than the full 6. Although I have a 6.5-gal fermenting bucket, I bought only a 5-gal carboy because I was planning to do 5-gal batches of beer, not 6-gal batches of wine.... A half gallon less water shouldn't make that much difference, should it? (I figured I would lose about that much when racking to secondary; then I don't have to top off.) Or should I do the full 6, and put the extra gallon in a 1-gal glass jug? And top off as needed

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I always use less water in my kits, as I think it gives the wine a bit more body. @joeswine is the person here with many tweaks, but I used golden raisins in a Riesling and it turned our very nice. You also might try a different yeast, such as Steinberger. Try to ferment in the cooler range.

Regarding the f-pack, I think it really depends on how sweet you like your wine. I like Gewurz just barely off-dry, so I personally would add about 2/3 of the f-pack to primary. But it is your taste buds you need to please (or perhaps someone else in your household).

It depends on how you like your wine and how you like the finish.
Sweet, do as directed.
Not so sweet, finish the wine as directed add the fpac to taste, then bottle.
Higher ABV make to 5.5 gallons let your hydrometer be your guide.
This wine has a unique taste profile of it's own Don't change that.

Thanks for the responses. I will go with 5.5 gallons. And I was thinking about half the F-pack at the beginning and adding a little at a time when I do add it later, to taste Thanks for confirming that as well.

As for the yeast recommendation...unfortunately Steinberger is not readily available, and neither are the other liquid yeasts I saw recommended elsewhere (WLP 727 or 720). It looks like the best I could do is maybe Lalvin QA23 or Red Star Cote des Blancs, which I saw listed as a possibility on one website, both supposedly used for "fruity" whites. Or just use the yeast in the kit, which was the ubiquitous EC-1118. Thoughts?

Nothing wrong with QA23. Also, D47 is readily available and a step up from 1118.

DIYer said:

I'm about to start my first kit, a Winexpert Vintner's Reserve Gewurztraminer (10L kit), and I although I did a search on this thread, I didn't see any suggested tweaks for gewurz... Is that because they generally do well as is with the kit instructions, no changes?

For example, this kit has a flavor pack and I saw a lot of suggestions to add at least part of the flavor pack at the beginning, for other types of wine. Would that make a difference here?

One change I am considering is making up only 5.5 gallons, rather than the full 6. Although I have a 6.5-gal fermenting bucket, I bought only a 5-gal carboy because I was planning to do 5-gal batches of beer, not 6-gal batches of wine.... A half gallon less water shouldn't make that much difference, should it? (I figured I would lose about that much when racking to secondary; then I don't have to top off.) Or should I do the full 6, and put the extra gallon in a 1-gal glass jug? And top off as needed...

Thanks for any input anyone has to share!

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Less water will throw your wine out of balance. Whenever you deviate from kit instructions, you're running the risk of ending up with something other than what the manufacturer intended. Losing a half gallon during racking is not the same as leaving out a half gallon of water when you start out. The wine you lose during racking has no affect other than to reduce the volume of wine you end up with. Leaving water out when you first mix it with the juice alters the balance of the whole batch - higher SG; change in potential ABV, possible residual sweetness, etc.

I have used the Red Star Cote de Blanc on Rose, and Chablis. It worked well and is not as Mac truckish as EC1118. The Rose and Chablis came off with good fruit notes and I did get an attaboy from the wife.