Popping wine corks - where did I go wrong?

Ok...

So when I started my journey into fruit wine making (March 2013), all I had to go by was a recipe booklet with a timeline - no instrumentation. So for my first 5 batches (Peach, Pineapple, Mango, Apple/Pear, & Banana) I did not have a hydrometer. The booklet advised that once there are no more bubbles passing through the fermentation lock, the fermentation will be complete. I was then instructed to add the stabilizer, sweeten to taste, and bottle. I did all of this exactly as instructed.

Problem is, as of last week, I've had a few corks popping off resulting in a champagne-like shower over everything in its path. The bit left over in the bottle tastes AMAZING - but has a fizz to it, almost like a beer.

Since bottling I have bought a hydrometer, but I have already sweetened the wines, so I don't know how to check if the fermentation is complete, or why the gas is building up and how to stop it.

Calling all clever people to help me out.
I cant waste anymore wine - it's a sin I am not willing to commit.

Your instructions left out one very vital step...degassing. If the CO2 is not removed, well you know the rest.

Before adding stabilizer, rack splash by making the wine hit the sides of the empty carboy. This sheeting effect will remove much of the gas. You can repeat or try stirring to remove the rest, if needed.

YourCaptain said:

I was then instructed to add the stabilizer, sweeten to taste, and bottle.

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What did you use as the stabilizer? Potassium sorbate? If so, how much sorbate in what volume of wine?

Steve

FABulousWines said:

Your instructions left out one very vital step...degassing. If the CO2 is not removed, well you know the rest.

Before adding stabilizer, rack splash by making the wine hit the sides of the empty carboy. This sheeting effect will remove much of the gas. You can repeat or try stirring to remove the rest, if needed.

Click to expand...

But it was not gassy when I bottled it? Did they just develop?

How do I know I have degassed enough? Is there a way to tell?

cpfan said:

What did you use as the stabilizer? Potassium sorbate? If so, how much sorbate in what volume of wine?

Steve

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Hey Steve

The ingredient I use came labeled as "stabilizer". I assume it will be Potassium Sorbate.

I'm at work now so don't have the recipe in front of me. But if I remember right, it was 4ml for 4.5l wine.

Yep--9 times out of 10 this is due to not allowing the wines to degass. Much is talked about here about manual degassing of wines--which I totally discourage unless you are working with kit wines.

The whole issue here is that wines need to remain under secondary fermentation to clear out sediment, firm up flavor, and in that time frame--usually 9 months to 1 year--they are degassed naturally. Sorbate will not prevent refermentation until the bulk of the yeast cells--about 80%-- are removed. So let's say you manually degass--what does THAT do for you when the bulk of the yeast cells are still in the wine? You STILL need to let it sit in the secondary and clear so your sorbate will work!

Your problems arise from not understanding exactly what you're trying to accomplish with your secondary fermentation. The only recourse now is to uncork them, get them in a jug or carboy, airlock them and let them degass OR be sure to keep them under refrigeration so the corks won't pop and drink them up.

In the future, let your wines sit AT LEAST 6 months in the secondary--and sometimes even THAT can be a little early. 9 months would be better to ensure you are clear,degassed, and the wines you sweeten that need sorbate will be stabile.

I don't think this is necessarily a degassing issue. It sounds more like a fermentation issue.

To avoid fermentation kicking off in the bottle, wait until fermentation stops, add k-meta and sorbate, wait 24 hours, backsweeten, monitor SG for a minimum of 3 days and then bottle.

Make sure there was sorbate in what you used, first of all. A lot of my wine kits use that name for KMeta and have a separate sorbate pack if you plan to backsweeten.

How long did you keep your wine in a carboy after you backsweetened? Did you leave it a few days to make sure there was no new fermentation?

I highly recommend that new winemakers do some reading on sorbate and how it works. E C Kraus has a nice discussion of it in their blogs. Fermentation ending? What's that? Not a good suggestion for new winemakers trying to get their feet under them. As I said--sorbate will NOT work in unstable wine--period.

Turock said:

The whole issue here is that wines need to remain under secondary fermentation to clear out sediment, firm up flavor, and in that time frame--usually 9 months to 1 year--they are degassed naturally.

In the future, let your wines sit AT LEAST 6 months in the secondary--and sometimes even THAT can be a little early. 9 months would be better to ensure you are clear,degassed, and the wines you sweeten that need sorbate will be stabile.

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I think this was the problem... the booklet I used was for a "quick n easy guide". The more I read on the forum, the more I realized there's nothing quick about the process of wine making. The booklet is a guide to make wine from buying the fruit to bottling in 1 month.

Guess tonight I'm de-bottling everything back into secondary n letting them sit a bit longer.

This is how we learn - with wine sprayed all over the floor.

Could be temp variation as it warms up it will release more gas.

if it was me i would throw them in the fridg until I decided what to do.

I have to agree with Dessertmaker, I think you have re-fermentation going on. Not seeing bubbles in the airlock is NOT a method of determining that the wine has completed fermentation. Take a reading and wait a few days and take another reading and see if there is a difference.

Seems to me that the fermentation never had ended! Let alone re-fermentation. How can a wine made in March, have EVER had its fermentation end?? That's my point! No way can you make a non-kit wine and have it bottled in 2 months. I think it needs to get back in a carboy so it can finish its fermentation and age. Am I crazy or does anyone else see my point here?

I don't know what I would do without you guys.
I think this forum is awesome!

Back to the carboy they go.

I'm happy now. That's what I wanted you to do. A lesson we have all mastered who are making great wines--you gotta have patience. Remember the old wine commercial which said"we will bottle no wine before its time."

I have no idea how any book could tell you to bottle in 1 month!!!!!! I'd be highly tempted to throw that book away!! Logically, it makes no sense. Preservation of JUICE to drink in a month may be one thing--but WINE? No wonder you're so confused and having problems!

Whether it's degassing, fermentation, or re-fermentation, more time in the secondary makes sense all the way around.

Good luck with it Captain, we are all learning here!

dessertmaker said:

I don't think this is necessarily a degassing issue. It sounds more like a fermentation issue.

To avoid fermentation kicking off in the bottle, wait until fermentation stops, add k-meta and sorbate, wait 24 hours, backsweeten, monitor SG for a minimum of 3 days and then bottle.

Click to expand...

I could not agree more. If you backsweeten, bottle, and store in a warm place (say 68 - 75 degrees) this is exactly what happens. Given the description above, I would say that this is most likely the cause.

I would also say it is more likely that the "stabilizer" was not enough to treat the wine properly. I would "UP" the waiting time to 3 weeks.

Turock, I think that some traditional recipes might call for bottling very quickly. I am making an Ethiopian honey wine and my understanding is that it is drunk within a month or so of the initial fermentation so the wine would still be actively fermenting, but the quantities that would be made would be drunk immediately and the wine would not be stored for any length of time and so YourCaptain's book may need to be read in that context rather than tossed as useless. But that said, here's my thinking (for what it's worth). My guess would be that even if YourCaptain had effectively put all the yeast into suspended animation and the stabilizer was thoroughly mixed into the wine and there was for sure no further fermentation going on (and none of that is certain), the wine in the bottles is very likely to be dropping sediment. The sediment may be very fine but particles of fruit and yeast are dropping out of suspension. Those particles encourage the CO2 to gather around them and the wine is unable to hold on to those larger collections of CO2 gas which when previously were more equally distributed they were absorbed in an apparent stable equilibrium. With the formation of particles it is as if the energy level in the wine changes and CO2 which was trapped in the liquid is no longer in equilibrium with the liquid. The wine with particles cannot absorb as much CO2 as the wine with no particles and the gas bubbles grow larger and move towards the surface of the wine and the surface of the glass and the cork. If you are lucky and the cork is not too tight the gas forces the cork out and with it a shower of wine.

I think the point is still being bypassed here---secondary fermentation is all about stability first. Firming flavors and degassing is the next thing. Without stable wine, sorbate will not work. Sorbate is not needed for dry wines. So if you intend to sweeten any wine, you are smart not to undertake it until you are ready to bottle. Because sorbate only prevents re-fermentation if the bulk of the yeast cells are removed thru racking. No matter how you THINK sorbate works, the way I described is the only way it will successfully prevent re-fermentation. The use of sorbate in cloudy, unstable wine is only fooling yourself, because fermentation will continue anyway--al beit much more slowly.