RJ Spagnols Cru Select - Chilean CabMalbecCarmenere - First kit

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WhyTheFace

Junior
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Even after reading the instructions I need a little advice. I have instructions from the wine store as well as the kit instructions.
I have the 16 litre kit that I did the primary fermentation in the 6 gallon white bucket; I have now moved to the secondary fermentation by moving to the 6 gallon glass carboy. The original 6 gallons minus the sediment left behind has only filled the glass carboy to a 5.5 gallon level.
The wine store instructions do not advise to top up. The CruSelect directions refer to top up - but do not really explain.

- do I need to top up?
- what do I use?
- how much do I add?
- what are my options?
- I have already added the sulphite, Potassium Sorbate and Kiesesol and Chitosan per the instructions.

Thank you in advance!

WTF
 
Even after reading the instructions I need a little advice. I have instructions from the wine store as well as the kit instructions.
I have the 16 litre kit that I did the primary fermentation in the 6 gallon white bucket; I have now moved to the secondary fermentation by moving to the 6 gallon glass carboy. The original 6 gallons minus the sediment left behind has only filled the glass carboy to a 5.5 gallon level.
The wine store instructions do not advise to top up. The CruSelect directions refer to top up - but do not really explain.

- do I need to top up?
- what do I use?
- how much do I add?
- what are my options?
- I have already added the sulphite, Potassium Sorbate and Kiesesol and Chitosan per the instructions.

Thank you in advance!

WTF

Since you have stabilized and added fining agents, I assume the ferementation is complete and that you have it in a carboy under airlock. You need to top off the carboy to withing 2" of the bottom of the stopper. Your options are juice, water and wine (preferred). Juice will sweeted the wine, water will dilute it and a similar wine will leave it unaffected. Get a bottle or two of a good Cabernet at your local wine store and use that to top off. Good luck and welcome to the forum.
 
Since you have stabilized and added fining agents, I assume the ferementation is complete and that you have it in a carboy under airlock. You need to top off the carboy to withing 2" of the bottom of the stopper. Your options are juice, water and wine (preferred). Juice will sweeted the wine, water will dilute it and a similar wine will leave it unaffected. Get a bottle or two of a good Cabernet at your local wine store and use that to top off. Good luck and welcome to the forum.
Thank you - I just happen to have a few surviving bottles from the Holidays!

Love the Brunello - I hope to try that eventually!

WTF
 
Congrats with going with a premium kit for your first. You will notice allot of sediment dropping out in the carboy. I would suggest giving it about 3 weeks from the stabilizing step and racking again to another carboy and topping up once more. Letting it bulk age there for a bit at least 2 months will give it time to mature and clear just a bit more. giving your wine time and not rushing will reward you. go get that brunello to give you something to do while you wait

cheers

check this out

http://www.winemakermag.com/component/content/article/26/850-making-your-kit-wine-shine-redeaux
 
Another option is to put your wine into a 5 gallon carboy (if you have one)and put the remainder in a couple of 750 ml bottles (under airlock) to be used later on for subsequent rackings.
Another thing the kit manufacturers don't say is that when you do your first racking, put the sediment into a bottle of appropriate size (under airlock). In a week or so that will settle out and you can use the clear part to top up with later on. Good Luck!!
 
Another option is to put your wine into a 5 gallon carboy (if you have one)and put the remainder in a couple of 750 ml bottles (under airlock) to be used later on for subsequent rackings.
Another thing the kit manufacturers don't say is that when you do your first racking, put the sediment into a bottle of appropriate size (under airlock). In a week or so that will settle out and you can use the clear part to top up with later on. Good Luck!!
Flem
Thank you for the tip - great ideas. I wish I had posted here first as I already parted with the sediment - it seemed so wasteful to lose that much of the wine at the bottom! As I am learning - there is much to learn!
 
Since you have stabilized and added fining agents, I assume the ferementation is complete and that you have it in a carboy under airlock. You need to top off the carboy to withing 2" of the bottom of the stopper. Your options are juice, water and wine (preferred). Juice will sweeted the wine, water will dilute it and a similar wine will leave it unaffected. Get a bottle or two of a good Cabernet at your local wine store and use that to top off. Good luck and welcome to the forum.

At risk of opening a can of worms I feel this is quite subjective. Now I'm not suggesting leaving a half full carboy but at least in my, albeit limited experience, I've left a carboy age for over a year being filled up past the shoulders but quite a bit below 2" of the stopper with no adverse effects.
 
Putterrr
Thanks for the guidance and the excellent link to the WineMaker article.

Can you advise - when I rerack and bulk age for the 2 months, do I need to add anything to the wine? I seem to have run across the mention of adding something if bulk aging?

Thanks again.

WTF
 
UBB
Thanks for the input. I am gathering that winemaking is rather an art with a fair amount of subjectivity. I have hope yet!
 
My view of winemaking is that it is very much a science, obeying chemical, physical, biological and mathematical laws. However, we practice it as an art and do many things based on experience rather than science. When I suggested leaving 2" or less between the bottom of the stopper and the wine, it is based on the principle of limiting the amount of air (in particular the oxygen in it) that can come into contact with the wine. Two inches below the stopper usually puts one into the neck of the carboy which minimizes the cross-sectional contact with air.

Because one person or ten were able to make wine successfully allowing for the potential of greater contact with air does not alter the principle. This is what is known as anecdotal evidence as opposed to scientific evidence and it is dangerous to follow. It is the same as saying that you know of a person or ten people who smoked all their lives and did not get lung cancer, therefore, one can smoke all he wants and not worry about lung cancer.
 
Putterrr
Thanks for the guidance and the excellent link to the WineMaker article.

Can you advise - when I rerack and bulk age for the 2 months, do I need to add anything to the wine? I seem to have run across the mention of adding something if bulk aging?

Thanks again.

WTF

Perhaps someone else can also chime in on this.

What would be added would be extra sulphite but that depends on how long you are bulk aging it. If its just going to be for 2 months, what you put in already should be OK. Now if you plan on leaving it in the bottles for say another year before drinking it, then you may want to added extra sulphite before bottling. It has been suggested on this forum that every 3 months of bulk aging add 1/4 tsp of k-meta. I'm not exactly sure where this number comes from. is it from years of experience, is it tips suggested by kit makers. don't know.

in the past I have not added any extra sulphite and have had bottles last for up to 2 years and they were fine. I have since started using the 5-20-40-90 method except that my 90 is at least 180 or more. i have also started adding the 1/4 tsp of k-meta after 3 months of aging. as i have only been doing the new method for a year, i can't really comment on what i will find as some of my wine ages past 1 and up to 2 years
 
Yes, the extra sulphite would be the thing you're referring to. Most kit instructions advise you to add 1/4 tsp of extra sulphite if you are going to keep the wine for more than 6 months. Like Putterrr I did not do this for many years and my wine seemed to do okay for a couple of years. Now I always add the extra, usually just before I bottle. I also go with a modified version of the 5-20-40-90 schedule.
Many advocate the addition of extra sulphite every 3-4 months of bulk ageing. Personally, I don't think this should be done blindly. Kits are designed to be pretty well foolproof, including the amount of sulphite to be added, so unless you are doing a lot of racking, the original packet with the kit and an extra 1/4 tsp prior to bottling if you want to keep the wine for a few years, should be plenty. If you rack the wine a lot, some additional sulphite might help with potential oxidation during the racking; but kits should not need a lot of racking, even if bulk aged for some time.
Someone did some research on this a while back, on this forum I think, and found that sulphite levels were higher than expected in wines that had had extra sulphite added and suggested that we be more conservative in this regard. The surest way, of course, is to measure sulphite levels, but most of us don't have the means of doing so.
Wine from grapes or fruit may be a little different since they aren't prebalanced like kits and also may require more racking; I don't have a lot of experience with them.
 
Yes, the extra sulphite would be the thing you're referring to. Most kit instructions advise you to add 1/4 tsp of extra sulphite if you are going to keep the wine for more than 6 months. Like Putterrr I did not do this for many years and my wine seemed to do okay for a couple of years. Now I always add the extra, usually just before I bottle. I also go with a modified version of the 5-20-40-90 schedule.
Many advocate the addition of extra sulphite every 3-4 months of bulk ageing. Personally, I don't think this should be done blindly. Kits are designed to be pretty well foolproof, including the amount of sulphite to be added, so unless you are doing a lot of racking, the original packet with the kit and an extra 1/4 tsp prior to bottling if you want to keep the wine for a few years, should be plenty. If you rack the wine a lot, some additional sulphite might help with potential oxidation during the racking; but kits should not need a lot of racking, even if bulk aged for some time.
Someone did some research on this a while back, on this forum I think, and found that sulphite levels were higher than expected in wines that had had extra sulphite added and suggested that we be more conservative in this regard. The surest way, of course, is to measure sulphite levels, but most of us don't have the means of doing so.
Wine from grapes or fruit may be a little different since they aren't prebalanced like kits and also may require more racking; I don't have a lot of experience with them.

Dugger I added the 1/4 tsp to my bulk carboy at 3-4 months but i don't plan to add any more when I bottle.
 
My view of winemaking is that it is very much a science, obeying chemical, physical, biological and mathematical laws. However, we practice it as an art and do many things based on experience rather than science. When I suggested leaving 2" or less between the bottom of the stopper and the wine, it is based on the principle of limiting the amount of air (in particular the oxygen in it) that can come into contact with the wine. Two inches below the stopper usually puts one into the neck of the carboy which minimizes the cross-sectional contact with air.

Because one person or ten were able to make wine successfully allowing for the potential of greater contact with air does not alter the principle. This is what is known as anecdotal evidence as opposed to scientific evidence and it is dangerous to follow. It is the same as saying that you know of a person or ten people who smoked all their lives and did not get lung cancer, therefore, one can smoke all he wants and not worry about lung cancer.
Rocky
Your point is well made and much appreciated.
 
Great info - thank you very much. I hope to age to a year at least but I have a hard time sitting on wine!
 
Yes, the extra sulphite would be the thing you're referring to. Most kit instructions advise you to add 1/4 tsp of extra sulphite if you are going to keep the wine for more than 6 months. Like Putterrr I did not do this for many years and my wine seemed to do okay for a couple of years. Now I always add the extra, usually just before I bottle. I also go with a modified version of the 5-20-40-90 schedule.
Many advocate the addition of extra sulphite every 3-4 months of bulk ageing. Personally, I don't think this should be done blindly. Kits are designed to be pretty well foolproof, including the amount of sulphite to be added, so unless you are doing a lot of racking, the original packet with the kit and an extra 1/4 tsp prior to bottling if you want to keep the wine for a few years, should be plenty. If you rack the wine a lot, some additional sulphite might help with potential oxidation during the racking; but kits should not need a lot of racking, even if bulk aged for some time.
Someone did some research on this a while back, on this forum I think, and found that sulphite levels were higher than expected in wines that had had extra sulphite added and suggested that we be more conservative in this regard. The surest way, of course, is to measure sulphite levels, but most of us don't have the means of doing so.
Wine from grapes or fruit may be a little different since they aren't prebalanced like kits and also may require more racking; I don't have a lot of experience with them.
Thank you for your thoughts - I appreciate the advice that is so readily available on his site!

WTF
 
My view of winemaking is that it is very much a science, obeying chemical, physical, biological and mathematical laws. However, we practice it as an art and do many things based on experience rather than science. When I suggested leaving 2" or less between the bottom of the stopper and the wine, it is based on the principle of limiting the amount of air (in particular the oxygen in it) that can come into contact with the wine. Two inches below the stopper usually puts one into the neck of the carboy which minimizes the cross-sectional contact with air.

Because one person or ten were able to make wine successfully allowing for the potential of greater contact with air does not alter the principle. This is what is known as anecdotal evidence as opposed to scientific evidence and it is dangerous to follow. It is the same as saying that you know of a person or ten people who smoked all their lives and did not get lung cancer, therefore, one can smoke all he wants and not worry about lung cancer.

I top mine up as well but I feel that some things are blown a little out of proportion. If you age wine in a barrel you should be getting some oxidation that way as well. I would think that the amount of air inside the carboy before topping up would be comparable to what you would see by aging in a barrel. I am talking to the wife about getting a barrel and might have to try an experiment with a couple batches. :)
 

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