Kumis or milk wine?

I saw a thread posted here about three years ago with a recipe for milk wine. Mare's milk wine is a traditional wine drunk in Mongolia and that part of the world but the recipe here looks a great deal a stronger than the 2.5% ABV it is traditionally drunk.

Looks like a version of this can be made using either lactose free cow's milk or ordinary cow's milk to which a lactose enzyme has been added. Has anyone tried making this wine? It is supposed to taste a little like sake.
I ask because kumis would seem to involve both a bacterial and a yeast fermentation and that might require the addition of some acid (not called out in the recipe). The other question I have is that the recipes I have seen all seem to suggest that the milk is diluted by the same volume of water... Cannot figure out the reason for that.. Thoughts?

Last question: If you have made this kind of wine before, would using a fat free milk be preferable to a full fat milk? Or does that not matter as the fat is bound up in the curds that form and does not create a problem for the wine and its longevity (fats breaking down and spoiling)..

Can you attach a link to the recipe you're referring to? Now I'm just curious,lol

I'm just wondering why anyone would want to make this?!?

Been their! Done that!

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/my-milk-wine-project-7095/

Before you read the thread and think poorly of me, please remember that this was in my earlier days of wine making. My technique and passion for wine making has changed quite a bit since then. Also, I did not mind the curds that were formed from using milk with fat, I just assumed they were alcoholic cheese.

hahaha! Thanks Seth! Would never think poorly of you! How did it turn out? did you ever drink it?

Well, this is going back down memory lane, but I seem to recall it had a very strong kind of barnyardy kind of taste. Not quite like the awesume milkshake it tasted and smelt like during fermentation.

seth8530 said:

Well, this is going back down memory lane, but I seem to recall it had a very strong kind of barnyardy kind of taste. Not quite like the awesume milkshake it tasted and smelt like during fermentation.

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Barnyardy taste sounds like there might have been some contamination with Brett... From what I have read elsewhere the taste is supposed to be similar to sake. But that aside it seems like millions of folk drink something like this from the Steppes to Columbia and for the price of a gallon of milk (albeit it lactose free milk) I don't see what's not to try. I guess I am just fascinated by folk drinks and the kinds of alcoholic beverages that folk (not professionals) traditionally make and drink.

But knowing what you know now, is there some reason to dilute the milk? Why do all the recipes for this suggest adding the same volume of water to the milk?

I would not dilute the milk if I was to remake the wine. Umm, I am not ruling out if it was infected or not, but just to be honest I think the wine was just a bit funky on its own.

I recommend you try it, at the very least you earn some bragging rights.

seth8530 said:

i recommend you try it, at the very least you earn some bragging rights.

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seth8530 said:

I would not dilute the milk if I was to remake the wine. Umm, I am not ruling out if it was infected or not, but just to be honest I think the wine was just a bit funky on its own.

I recommend you try it, at the very least you earn some bragging rights.

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Planning on starting this wine this week- perhaps tonight if I can find the lactose free milk.

BernardSmith said:

Planning on starting this wine this week- perhaps tonight if I can find the lactose free milk.

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can you keep us posted on it? This sounds intriguing!

I'd rather drink Welches.

GreginND said:

I'd rather drink Welches.

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It may taste horrific... or it may taste delicious. I know that nothing would make me try advocaat (an egg brandy the color of egg yolks) but then I forced myself to taste it and I kicked myself because of what I had refused to try for years... It may be a disaster or it may be an incredible folk drink... but I won't know until I try it.

I will use this thread to post a note on any progress I am making towards this drink.

BernardSmith said:

It may taste horrific... or it may taste delicious. I know that nothing would make me try advocaat (an egg brandy the color of egg yolks) but then I forced myself to taste it and I kicked myself because of what I had refused to try for years... It may be a disaster or it may be an incredible folk drink... but I won't know until I try it.

I will use this thread to post a note on any progress I am making towards this drink.

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I used to love advocaat. My dad bought me a bottle every year for Christmas.It was my eggnog lol

3/9/14
Found a gallon of lactose free & fat free milk and added 1 lb of sugar to bring the gravity to about 1.080. (2 qts seem to be calcium enriched and so have added carrageenan... )
Added 1 t nutrient and 1/2 t energizer.
pitched 71B yeast.

Ready yourself for the milkshake smell!

seth8530 said:

Ready yourself for the milkshake smell!

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Thanks Seth, I will prepare myself, although I'm not sure I know what a milk shake smells like (we make our own and they don't seem to have unexpected smells)
This morning I see that the milk begun to ferment and that there is a froth sitting atop the container. No unpleasant aromas, but then I have a batch of alfalfa mead fermenting and several gallon batches of cider fermenting on the same counter top.
Capped the container and shook it vigorously to aerate and keep the yeast suspended. Replaced the cap with sheet of aluminum foil. Will check the gravity again this evening. Last night it was about 1.080 although the solids in the milk will suggest a greater ABV than the sugar content will provide. (I added 16 oz of sugar last night but intend to add another 16 oz this evening if there is still evidence of a good fermentation).

3/11/14 The kumis was very active during the night. I have been fermenting this in two large jars and although one of the jars had about 4 inches of head room I found a pile of curds on the counter this morning. This despite the cover I had loosely placed over the mouth of the jar to keep our cats out.

Looks like there are about three inches of curds sitting on top, a very small layer of lees on the bottom and a thin liquid that resembles whey in the middle. The jars have a diameter of about 6 inches (I started with one gallon of milk and 2 lbs of sugar and my volume at this time is about 1.5 gallons )

Tried to draw a sample and measure the gravity but the froth and milk particles in the measuring cylinder make it impossible to read the hydrometer. Gave up after two attempts.

I tried the curds and they taste very sweet. This makes me wonder whether using my hydrometer to get an indication of the ABV is in fact useful. I am wondering how much of the sugar will be bound up in the curds so that even if the potential ABV was say, 10.5%, the true ABV even when the gravity falls below 1.000 may be only 6 or 7%.

Was able to siphon off enough of the clear liquor to measure the gravity this evening. It has already fallen to about 1.010. Removed the curds with a spoon and racked the wine into a small carboy. Was able to rack 1/2 gallon with perhaps another 1/4 gallon I need to refrigerate and allow the remaining liquid to separate from the lees and remaining curds.

Tasted the curds: not sweet although the liquor that seeped from the curds was.

How is this one going? lol