Rising santizer off

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I'm not going to use it anymore . I was just worrying because I used it to clean my equipment and wanted to make sure i rinsed well enough. thanks for replaying

Yes - Good idea. TSP is great for general house cleaning but for food handling, I think you will be much happier and have less work with something like StarSan or other non-rinsing sanitizers.

One thing to be aware of - Most of these mix-it-yourself sanitizers have a limited shelf life once mixed. Be sure of that info when you purchase and mix it. I have used several but have settled on StarSan as the best for me. Straight KMeta is the one and only for a lot of folks.
 
I've been thinking about this thread for a while. Tap water is really pretty clean. In fact, it is clean enough to have become the standard of care for irrigating wounds before suturing them. If tap water is better than sterile saline for the irrigation of human wounds, it shouldn't have bacterial counts that present a significant danger to my wine.

Today I was watching a video by Tim Vandergrift on the use of the Buon Vino Mini Jet wine pump (I won't link it because it embeds the video; you can Google it). In it, he makes a point of rinsing off all of the Kmeta he uses as a sanitizer, and he rinses with tap water.

What is really interesting to consider is the required contact time of the commonly used sanitizers. Kmeta, from everything I read, has a required contact time of 5 minutes. Let's be honest, hardly any of us who have used Kmeta for sanitizing wait the 5 minutes required for it to have an effect. Star San on the other hand is 60 seconds and one source says the company thinks it is more like 30 seconds. Lots of times I probably don't wait 30 seconds with the Star San either!

All of this leads me to conclude 1) you would likely do yourself very little harm in rinsing off sanitizer with tap water, and 2) bacterial contamination is FAR more likely to be due to inadequate time of contact of the sanitizer used than it is due to a tap water rinse.
 
The key is that not all tap water is the same. The extremes being places with severe tap water contamination (Detroit) but even acknowledging that as highly unusual, there is still the potential for local treatment systems seasonal changes in the water treatment processes they use. Here in NW Arkansas our lake water, while safe to drink, gets extra doses of Chlorine when the lake water "Turns over" (Don't ask me to splain that) when that happens our tap water has a distinct Chlorine smell and that's not something I want to add to my wine in any quantity.

One additional point about tap water. When I make my sanitizing solution with Star San lately I've noticed that it has turned cloudy within hours - That is one condition that the manufacturer states is an indication that your solution should be discarded. So for my last batch of Star San I used Purified water and Surprise it has stayed crystal clear now for over a week. Point is that sometimes there are things in our tap water that still meet standards but may not be great for what we are doing. So I have decided to be sure that the last solution that touches my equipment before it is used is a no-rinse sanitizer AND I will be using at least purified water instead of tap water for all other wine making activities like my Simple Syrups or water additions to my initial wine batch solutions.

I use Star San and I consider their directions to mean not to use something sanitized with Star San for at least a minute after sanitizing. I know that the film of water on things sticks around for at least that long so unless I immediately rinse with tap water or bring the treated item into contact with my wine must before 1 minute, the sanitizing action should be effective.
 
The key is that not all tap water is the same. The extremes being places with severe tap water contamination (Detroit) but even acknowledging that as highly unusual, there is still the potential for local treatment systems seasonal changes in the water treatment processes they use. Here in NW Arkansas our lake water, while safe to drink, gets extra doses of Chlorine when the lake water "Turns over" (Don't ask me to splain that) when that happens our tap water has a distinct Chlorine smell and that's not something I want to add to my wine in any quantity.

One additional point about tap water. When I make my sanitizing solution with Star San lately I've noticed that it has turned cloudy within hours - That is one condition that the manufacturer states is an indication that your solution should be discarded. So for my last batch of Star San I used Purified water and Surprise it has stayed crystal clear now for over a week. Point is that sometimes there are things in our tap water that still meet standards but may not be great for what we are doing. So I have decided to be sure that the last solution that touches my equipment before it is used is a no-rinse sanitizer AND I will be using at least purified water instead of tap water for all other wine making activities like my Simple Syrups or water additions to my initial wine batch solutions.

I use Star San and I consider their directions to mean not to use something sanitized with Star San for at least a minute after sanitizing. I know that the film of water on things sticks around for at least that long so unless I immediately rinse with tap water or bring the treated item into contact with my wine must before 1 minute, the sanitizing action should be effective.

First, you are confusing Detroit and Flint. Flint's water problem is not bacteriologic; it occurred when the city switched their water source from Detroit to the Flint River, and then failed to treat the water with corrosion inhibitors, causing lead to leach from pipes.

The cloudiness of Star San is related to the minerality of the water used, not to bacterial contamination, chlorine, or other additives. Using RO or distilled water it will keep it clear. So long as the pH is below 3.0 it is still OK to use.

I agree with your interpretation of correct Star San use. But let's be clear, without rinsing Star San you are adding trace amounts of dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid, a major component of laundry detergent, to your wine. And to put this in perspective, the dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid in Star San is 300ppm and chlorine in tap water is maximum 4ppm, usually under 0.5ppm. I see no reason to be concerned about the chlorine in the rinse water left on the racking cane, when the concentration the dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid in the Star San left on the racking cane is on the order of 1000 times higher.

I think that humans have a hard time accurately assessing and quantifying risk. My point in these posts is that rinse or not, it probably doesn't matter that much; the vast majority of risk surrounding sanitizers is probably tied to inadequate contact time and improper use.
 
Thanks for the correction(s).
I mentioned the potential concern about Tap water because around here just about every year the local TV stations run a story about the way local tap water takes on a stong Chlorine smell. And of course there are some folks who don't like the Floride additions to their water either.

Guess my point is unless you are using pure distilled water, rinsing with tap water, well water, or even purified/filtered water there may be other chemicals present that cause someone some level of concern. Me, I just don't see a problem with that trace amount of dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid on or in my equipment compared to residue of tap water with whatever chemicals it may contain. I'll take the devil I know over the unknown of even the best communities tap water.

After all the vast majority of the time communities find out that tap water is 'unsafe' is after that unsafe water has been coming out of faucets for a day or longer. Yes, Flint was an extreme but 'boil water' orders come out on a daily basis in one community or another across this country. I'd be a bit ticked off if I had to pitch a batch of wine because I found out the day after I started it - OH, you should have been boiling your tap water and that boil water order extends for the next 48 hours because a major water pipe line broke and your water may contain ....
 

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