Mosti Mondiale Meglioli Old Vine Zinfandel

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TomK-B

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I pitched the yeast on this kit this afternoon. It's the AllGrape pack version. Temp was 65*F, SG: 1.100. This is my second Meglioli kit. I've had the Meg Amarone in bulk aging since last April.

I'm making a number of tweaks to the kit. First, I'm substituting BM-45 for the yeast which I rehydrated with GoFerm. I'm also adding OptiRed, Lallzyme EX and FT Rouge during primary fermentation. And I've added the grape pack to the must loose rather than bagging it. I'm thinking that may make the skins more available to the action of the additives I'm using. I'm also planning to substitute Fermaid K as my yeast energizer. Another change from my previous method is that I'm doing my primary fermentation in stainless steel.

I've read Tony's thread about the difficulty he's had in getting the Meglioli kits to clear. I racked my Amarone back just before Christmas and found a good bit of sediment had accumulated since April. I'm wondering about substituting some other fining agent when that time rolls around. Not sure what I'll do, yet.

After having a tiny taste of the Amarone at Christmas and being flat out blown away by how good it already was, I'm excited by this new kit.
 
Good to see you again, Tom! I have nothing helpful to add, but your Amarone sounds wonderful. Your OVZ sounds promising! Where did you get your Meg kits from?
 
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Tom
I just received my MMM OVZ and plan to ad Option Red and FT Rouge also. I am sure I will clear with Super Kleer. My MMM Amarone from last year got bottled two weeks ago. I'm very hopeful for that one. I may follow your progress on the OVZ for a few weeks before starting mine. That's a lot of tweaks. What made you decide on BM45? Please post your progress.

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Sour Grapes FYI mine came from George at FVW.

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Hi Tom, you'll have to keep us posted on the progress of the Zinfandel. I have the MM Sicilian Primitivo on order and can't wait until it arrives. I understand that the Zinfandel and Primitivo are thought to be from the same Croatian grape variety, so I selected my yeasts for this kit based on suggested yeasts for Zinfandel. I plan on spitting the batch and using BM4x4 and Assmanshausen (AMH). Just out of curiosity, why did you select BM45 over BM4x4? I had read that BM45, though great can be a bit difficult to use and that BM4x4 is essentially the BM45, but with some things added to it to make it a bit more reliable? Is this the reason you are using other additives?

I'm a little nervous about switching out the MM kit yeast because these kits are so darn expensive and I've never used either BM4x4, or AMH before.

On a slightly different note, what yeast did you use for your MM Amarone?
 
Thanks, Paul. Like Tony, I got my Meglioli kits from George at FVW. I was first introduced to kit wimemaking through his website and have always enjoyed doing business with him.

Cocroach, I had to go back and check my notes on the Meglioli Amarone. Turns out I used the BM45 on it, too. I remember reading a post in one of the threads here where someone was recommending the BM45 for use with Amarone. I did some research and found it was recommended for Italian reds (and the Zinfandel, also) and supposed to add an enhanced aroma and flavor profile, especially with red fruit. It was also supposed to be a slower fermenter. I was interested in this because I wanted my wine to stay on those grape skins and raisins as long as possible in order to extract as much as possible out of them. My experience with the EC1118 (that comes with both of these kits) is that it's like fermenting on a rocket sled. Also, the aroma and flavor profile of the EC1118 is described as pretty much neutral. I imagine those are the two characteristics (speed and flavor neutrality) that make it desirable as a yeast to wine kit manufacturers. And, yes, the use of the GoFerm and Fermaid K is exactly to aid with the nutritional needs of the BM45. The other additives are to help enhance the mouthfeel, body and color stability. The reason for choosing BM45 over the BM4x4 is simple. I didn't learn about BM4x4 until after I'd ordered and used the BM45. So, I guess you could say that I chose it because of my ignorance of the alternative (which is pretty characteristic of my life in general). :slp But, seriously, I don't mind the little extra nursing of the BM45. And if the Amarone is any example of what can be expected, I'm sold on it.
 
Where did you get the bm45 and did you use the grape pack AND raisins?

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Tony, I got the yeast and all the other additives from MoreWine. http://morewinemaking.com/

In the Amarone I used both the grape pack and raisins in primary fermentation. I bagged both of them in separate bags. My OVZ kit came with the grape pack, but not raisins. I left the grape skins unbagged to give the Lallzyme and Optired better access to the surfaces. I am planning to add 1 lb of raisins in secondary (a la joeswine).
 
I used BM45 on a CC Showcase Rosso Fortissimo (i.e., Super Tuscan). I was drawn to it by the promise of greater mouthfeel and jammy notes. It was indeed a slow starter for me, but I had no problems with it. BM4x4 seems to be BM45+another, more reliable yeast. I decided, in for a dime, in for a dollar. (Or, "Go big or go home," as the kewl kidz would say today.) I got the BM45 at MoreWine! as well.
 
Tom/Paul, thanks for the insight on BM45. I'm still fairly new to winemaking, so I thought the BM4x4 might be a safer bet for me. Helpful to know you both achieved great results with the BM45. I plan to do the MM Amarone, or CC Amarone (haven't decided which one yet) and the Rosso Fortissimo too; I'll probably use the BM yeast on these as well.

Tom, good to know for the MM Amarone, you used both the All-Grape Pack and the Raisin pack in the primary. I was really tempted to use both on the MM Barolo, but the instructions said to only use on or the other, but not both. If I go with the MM Amarone, I will definitely add both.
 
As usual, the BM45 has been off to a slow start. But this morning when I checked in on it, the wine had a definite cap on it. I stirred it down and headed on to work. This evening (which would be about 52 hours after pitching the yeast) when I got home from work I checked on it again. The cap had formed again and it was sizzling like a grilling steak. :h I didn't check the SG. I figure I'll check it tomorrow and see if we're getting anywhere near the 1.040 when I plan to add the Fermaid K.
 
Sounds great, Tom.

Just curious: Why do you plan to add the Fermaid K at 1.040, instead of earlier? Everything I read suggests adding at something like 1/3 of the sugar depletion, so like 1.065 or so. You are planning to add at something like 62% sugar depletion.
 
I ordered BM45 and Fermaid for my MMM Amazon and OVZ. Do yall sprinkle or re-hydrate the yeast? Fermaid?

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I ordered BM45 and Fermaid for my MMM Amazon and OVZ. Do yell sprinkle or rehydrate the yeast? Fermaid?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Wine Making mobile app

I've followed the instructions from MoreWine with BM45 and had no issues just as sour_grapes said. It is slow to start fermentation and has high nutrient requirements. The key with this yeast, I think, is nutrient supplementation, which for me means nutrients at the first sign of activity, 1/3 sugar depletion point, and 2/3 sugar depletion point. Be careful as BM45 is one of the heavy foamers.

So far, I have not been disappointed with using it.
 
Just curious: Why do you plan to add the Fermaid K at 1.040, instead of earlier? Everything I read suggests adding at something like 1/3 of the sugar depletion, so like 1.065 or so. You are planning to add at something like 62% sugar depletion.

Well, honestly, I must just be getting lazy. The first time I used this yeast I added about half of the Fermaid after a couple of days. I wasn't used to its slow start up and was pretty nervous, so I decided to give it a boost. And it worked! This time I expected the delay, so didn't add at first sign of activity. I may go ahead and add some tonight. When I checked on things this morning I found a robust fermentation going on. This probably would be a good time to feed the yeast. Wouldn't want them to start adding bad stuff to this wine. I'm pretty sure this is going to turn out to be a great wine if I don't screw it up in some way.:slp

Oh, and ditto on the foaming! After punching down the cap this morning there was a layer of froth on the surface at least an inch thick. Glad I'm fermenting in a 10 gal pot.
 
Well, honestly, I must just be getting lazy. The first time I used this yeast I added about half of the Fermaid after a couple of days. I wasn't used to its slow start up and was pretty nervous, so I decided to give it a boost. And it worked! This time I expected the delay, so didn't add at first sign of activity. I may go ahead and add some tonight. When I checked on things this morning I found a robust fermentation going on. This probably would be a good time to feed the yeast. Wouldn't want them to start adding bad stuff to this wine. I'm pretty sure this is going to turn out to be a great wine if I don't screw it up in some way.:slp

To avoid having to worry too much about timing, what I have taken to doing is splitting my dose into two parts. I add about half when my SG reading indicates that I am close to the 1/3 sugar-depletion point, and the rest at the first SG reading that is below the 1/3 sugar-depletion point (which is usually the next day).

Oh, and ditto on the foaming! After punching down the cap this morning there was a layer of froth on the surface at least an inch thick. Glad I'm fermenting in a 10 gal pot.

Oh, good. A 10-gal vessel should give you plenty of room!
 
Got home this afternoon and checked the SG: 1.058. So, I went ahead and put in 8g of Fermaid K. The response was almost instantaneous. Fermentation kicked into high gear. Lots of bubbling and frothing. Good thing I have it in the 10 gal, or I'd have been mopping it up off the floor! As it is, looks like we're good to go until SG gets to around 1.000. I plan to transfer it to secondary at that point. I'm hoping that will be around Friday.
 
I wish I were one of those people who always took the advice of others with more experience and who learn the easy way. But nooooooo! I'm one of those people who seems to always need to learn the hard way.

Came home today. Took my SG measurement. 1.010. So, I decided to go ahead and transfer to secondary. Cleaned and sanitized all my equipment. Dropped a pound of red raisins in my carboy along with the package of oak that came in the kit. Then I took my wire sieve and began scooping all those grape skins, seeds, twigs, etc. from the AllGrape pack that I'd experimented with by putting it in the must free rather than in a hops bag. Wow, I got a lot of stuff out of that juice! Then I hooked up my All in One Wine Pump and began the transfer. And it all went fine . . . for a while. Then all the crud that I didn't get out the first time began stopping up my lines. :m So, I stopped everything and cleaned out the lines and scooped out some more of the loose grape pack. :< Every time the line would get stopped up I'd start worrying that I might implode my carboy. So, I shut it down and clean things out again. It has NEVER taken me so long to rack six gallons of wine before. I kept telling my wife how I was engaged in HUGE learning experience.:slp

Well, I eventually got it all transferred into secondary and it's beginning to slowly bubble away again. Note to self: Always, always, always put the grape pack in a hops bag before placing in fermenter.
 

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