MLF and Juice Buckets

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RegionRat

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I have 3 - 6gal juice buckets actively fermenting. Merlot Syrah, and Malbec. They are, as of this morning , sitting around sg1.050, PH all 3 is in the 3.5is range. It was sugested to me when I picked up the juice to do MLF on them. I did not test for, nor did I sulfite any of the buckets.

I asked at the local wine supply shop and was told to use White Labs DYWM9 but he was out of it. I orders it online and was told they only had Wyeast 4007. TheDYWM9 I read you pitch at 1.020, the Wyeast 4007 I understand you pitch pitch when dry. I also read to be careful when adding Opti Malo Plus. Unconsumed Opti Malo Plus can add an off flavor. I also read do not sulfite till MLF is complete.

I kinda wanted to use the Withlabs because it is introduced during primary fermentation. The Wyeast is at the end and I read you have to monitor it till it is done, mix up the fine lee every day and purge with inert gas till MFL is complete. It sounds like it needs more attention then I am willing to give it right now.

Should I just skip the MLF? Can I do MLF later when I have more time?

Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks,

RR
 
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I have 3 - 6gal juice buckets actively fermenting. Merlot Syrah, and Malbec. They are, as of this morning , sitting around sg1.050, PH all 3 is in the 3.5is range. It was sugested to me when I picked up the juice to do MLF on them. I did not test for, nor did I sulfite any of the buckets.

I asked at the local wine supply shop and was told to use White Labs DYWM9 but he was out of it. I orders it online and was told they only had Wyeast 4007. TheDYWM9 I read you pitch at 1.020, the Wyeast 4007 I understand you pitch pitch when dry. I also read to be careful when adding Opti Malo Plus. Unconsumed Opti Malo Plus can add an off flavor. I also read do not sulfite till MLF is complete.

Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks,

RR

There are two types of Wyeast 4007 - (ER1A & Ey2d), one for whites, one for reds.
Just follow the instructions and use the proper one and maintain the appropriate temperature.

Product: Malo-Lactic Cultures (Oenococcus oeni) ER1A, Ey2D & 4007 Blend (ER1A & Ey2d) Description: A liquid suspension of Oenococcus oeni grown in a sterile organic juice based nutrient enriched medium. This product will provide rapid and complete malic acid reduction in high acid wines. Malic acid reduction will balance and soften wine while enhancing flavor and aroma characteristics including vanilla and buttery notes. Malo-lactic conversion is generally completed within 1-3 months. ER1A is an excellent choice for red wines, it was isolated for it tolerance to low pH conditions. Ey2D is suggested for white wines, it has been selected for it tolerance to low cellar temperatures. 4007 Blend will cover a broad range of temperatures and pH conditions. Instructions for use: Sanitize package before opening. Pour the contents into wine that has completed or nearly completed alcoholic fermentation. Free SO2 levels should be less than 15 ppm. Inoculation Rate: Directly inoculates juice or must at 0.5% (1 liter culture per 55 gallons of must). Fermentation Temps: ER1A should be between 70[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F to 90[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F
Ey2D should be between 55[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F to 75[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]
Stability: Best when used fresh; use within 14 days of receipt. Packaging: Depending on volumes, culture is packaged in a 1 liter foil pouch or 1 - 2.5 gal cubitainers.


You really do need to use a Chromatography test to monitor the MLF and to determine when it is finished as it will take 1 to 3 months to complete. You can order it from several places like More Wines.

You don't sulfite until MLF is completed. Just don't over dose with the MLF nutrient and you will be fine.

During MLF, keep the wine topped off and under an air lock.
 
There are two types of Wyeast 4007 - (ER1A & Ey2d), one for whites, one for reds.
Just follow the instructions and use the proper one and maintain the appropriate temperature.

Product: Malo-Lactic Cultures (Oenococcus oeni) ER1A, Ey2D & 4007 Blend (ER1A & Ey2d) Description: A liquid suspension of Oenococcus oeni grown in a sterile organic juice based nutrient enriched medium. This product will provide rapid and complete malic acid reduction in high acid wines. Malic acid reduction will balance and soften wine while enhancing flavor and aroma characteristics including vanilla and buttery notes. Malo-lactic conversion is generally completed within 1-3 months. ER1A is an excellent choice for red wines, it was isolated for it tolerance to low pH conditions. Ey2D is suggested for white wines, it has been selected for it tolerance to low cellar temperatures. 4007 Blend will cover a broad range of temperatures and pH conditions. Instructions for use: Sanitize package before opening. Pour the contents into wine that has completed or nearly completed alcoholic fermentation. Free SO2 levels should be less than 15 ppm. Inoculation Rate: Directly inoculates juice or must at 0.5% (1 liter culture per 55 gallons of must). Fermentation Temps: ER1A should be between 70[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F to 90[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F
Ey2D should be between 55[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F to 75[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]
Stability: Best when used fresh; use within 14 days of receipt. Packaging: Depending on volumes, culture is packaged in a 1 liter foil pouch or 1 - 2.5 gal cubitainers.


You really do need to use a Chromatography test to monitor the MLF and to determine when it is finished as it will take 1 to 3 months to complete. You can order it from several places like More Wines.

You don't sulfite until MLF is completed. Just don't over dose with the MLF nutrient and you will be fine.

During MLF, keep the wine topped off and under an air lock.


Thanks for the reply,

The one coming is blend of ER1A and Ey2d, I assume it is for red wines.

I do have Chromatography testing stuff.

You say , "Just don't over dose with the MLF nutrient." How much is too much?

RR
 
I used White labs wlp675 and worked great. I also read in White Labs paperwork it is impossible to over inoculate with the culture... You just waste your money by adding too much.
 
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I used White labs wlp675 and worked great. I also read in White Labs paperwork it is impossible to over inoculate with the culture... You just waste your money by adding too much.

Yep, can't really over inoculate with the MLB. I think RegionRat is worried about over dosing with the MLF nutrient and causing an off taste.

I have never used that particular nutrient brand. Not trying to be vague, just follow the instructions. If you are concerned, just use 2/3's of what the instructions recommend or switch to another brand. Long ago, before they even knew what an MLF was or what exactly was happening to their wine, MLF's were spontaneous; they certainly would not have been using special nutrients. If you do start your MLF before alcohol fermentation is completed, you don't need to add as much MLF nutrient anyway, the "stuff" present during that fermentation will supply some nutrients.
 
Sorry to chime in on this late in the discussion.
I have read mostly bad things about White Labs malolactic Bacteria, you would be better suited in getting bacchus malolactic bacteria, or Lalvin 31 or VP41.
This info comes from winemakers with many years of experience, and I can only pass it along to you. Don't get me wrong, it can work, but as far as an effeicient MLB, it is on the lower end of the scale. I'd use a higher quality product.
You cannot really over dose with Malolactic bacteria, as stated, you can however over dose on the nutrients.
 
Sorry to chime in on this late in the discussion.
I have read mostly bad things about White Labs malolactic Bacteria, you would be better suited in getting bacchus malolactic bacteria, or Lalvin 31 or VP41.
This info comes from winemakers with many years of experience, and I can only pass it along to you. Don't get me wrong, it can work, but as far as an effeicient MLB, it is on the lower end of the scale. I'd use a higher quality product.
You cannot really over dose with Malolactic bacteria, as stated, you can however over dose on the nutrients.

Yep, can't really over inoculate with the MLB. I think RegionRat is worried about over dosing with the MLF nutrient and causing an off taste.

I have never used that particular nutrient brand. Not trying to be vague, just follow the instructions. If you are concerned, just use 2/3's of what the instructions recommend or switch to another brand. Long ago, before they even knew what an MLF was or what exactly was happening to their wine, MLF's were spontaneous; they certainly would not have been using special nutrients. If you do start your MLF before alcohol fermentation is completed, you don't need to add as much MLF nutrient anyway, the "stuff" present during that fermentation will supply some nutrients.

Thanks, that is kinda the input I was kinda looking for.

From what I read the fine lee in the wine after the wine ferments dry contains all the nutrient needed. I was worried about adding additional nutrient. I did read that you can add too much nutrient and produce an after taste. Do you add nutrient ?

The buckets in question are sitting around sg 1.025 or so. I plan on racking tonight or tomorrow. The Wyeast 4007 just arrived yesterday. If you think I would be better using bacchus malolactic bacteria, Lalvin 31 or VP41. Do I have time to find some, have it delivered, and introduce it?

Also I read to while MLF is ongoing, 1-3 months , I read to stir up the lee every few day. Then purge the head space with inert gas. Do I need to do this.

RR
 
I don't add any nutrients... I don't stir that often and change the head gas either.... Might give the bottle a shake every now and then if it looks like it needs a kick in the butt a little.... I believe with wine always less is more if possible. Always more time is better then less if possible. Don't over think it.

Just me.......
 
Hello everyone, I just came across this thread while researching Wyeast 4007. Like RegionRat, I also plan on doing a blend of Malbec, Syrah and Cabernet this year and would like to do MLF. I've read with interest all your opinions, but I do have a question. Can one do MLF without adding anything? And if yes, how is it done? Should I let the must sit for 3 months on it's lees after the first fermentation is finished and stir the lees once in awhile? I also use buckets of juice and carboys. Any help is highly appreciated.
Thank you
 
Hello everyone, I just came across this thread while researching Wyeast 4007. Like RegionRat, I also plan on doing a blend of Malbec, Syrah and Cabernet this year and would like to do MLF. I've read with interest all your opinions, but I do have a question. Can one do MLF without adding anything? And if yes, how is it done? Should I let the must sit for 3 months on it's lees after the first fermentation is finished and stir the lees once in awhile? I also use buckets of juice and carboys. Any help is highly appreciated.
Thank you

Much like you might be able to do ferments using the yeast that is on the grapes, you might be able to do MLF without adding your own bacteria. If you added any SO2 at the beginning, then my guess is that no you can't. If you have anything going against you, you can't. Trying to do it without adding Malolactic bacteria is probably not going to work very well. Also, I think I have only ever heard of one person having luck with the Wyeast 4007 Malolactic Bacteria. It is very picky about the conditions it will work in.
 
Much like you might be able to do ferments using the yeast that is on the grapes, you might be able to do MLF without adding your own bacteria. If you added any SO2 at the beginning, then my guess is that no you can't. If you have anything going against you, you can't. Trying to do it without adding Malolactic bacteria is probably not going to work very well. Also, I think I have only ever heard of one person having luck with the Wyeast 4007 Malolactic Bacteria. It is very picky about the conditions it will work in.
Thanks for the input. I was just wondering and trying to do MLF this year. On a weekend trip to Maryland stopped by a suply store near Annapolis and asked questions and bought a pack of Wyeast ey2d. Recommended by the store owner. Only when I arrived home in NJ I took a better look at it and realized it's for white wine. I havery no use for it.
 
If this liquid MLB is not successful will it ruin the wine or will it have no effect whatsoever on it?

No, it won't ruin the wine if it doesn't complete MLF, it'll just won't convert the malic acid to lactic acid. If I were going to try that product again, I'd consider strongly inoculating the must with it just after lag phase of the yeast, it's a better environment for the MLB when there's little / no alcohol yet, and the warm fermentation temps will also help it along. You'll greatly increase your chances of success by feeding both the yeast and the MLB the proper nutrients.
 

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