Bitter?

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rickbw

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I know that I should not be worried about this based on the timing of my first attempts, but still wanted to ask the question. We are doing a Chardonnay and a Reisling. The Chardonnay was primary fermented (starting SG 1.08) for about a week and then moved to a secondary, it is a Selection International Australian Chardonnay and the instructions were to stir the lees and then add the stabilzer, etc. We let it sit for another day or so after stirring and then moved it to another carboy and topped it up with a store bought (cheap) Chardonnay so that it was 2 inches from the top of the carboy. (also note we used the allinonewinepump to degass as we racked) - it has now sat in the carboy for another week and has cleared considerably (looks nice!). We did a quick taste test last nite and it had an extremely bitter taste and somewhat od an off smell. Is this normal? Will the bitterness and the off smell go away over time? And if so, what should my timing be? BTW, the finished SG was .99

The Reisling was a (cheapo $41) Vino Italiano from Amazon that we figured was worth just trying to see what the quality would be for 1/3 the cost of the Chardonnay. Anyway, it primary fermented for a week and is now in the secondary for 4 days and appears to have stopped fermenting (very similar starting and finishing SG as the Chardonnay) and when we taste tested it last nite it also was very bitter, but no off smell. Is this also normal at this stage of the process?
 
Rick, I have not done either kit, but "bitter" in a white would not be something I would expect at that point in the process. Do you know the SG of the wines at the time you tasted them? Can you describe the "off smell" for us? Was it vinegar-like? Sulfur-like? Rotten egg-like? You say that the instructions were to "stir the lees and then add the stablilizer, etc." Are you sure of this? Like I said, I have not made that kit but the instructions, in kits that transfer all the lees from pirmary to secondary, are to stir the lees and transfer everything, let the lees settle again, rack again and then stabilize.

Are these the instructions that came with your Selection International Australian Chardonnay?
http://www.winexpert.com/images/Orig_Intl_Inst_Sept2011_Eng.pdf
 
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Rocky,

The off smell was a little like sulfer. The Selection instructions were very specific about stirring everything into suspension before adding the stabilizer etc while the Chardonnay was in the secondary. I guess I should note that the wine fermented very quickly in the primary and was about 77 dgrees - would this have caused any problem?
 
Sulfer smell could be an H2S issue.

Was the taste more of a "Green" wine than bitter? Whites early can taste green to me - just not ready basically..
 
Jon,

As a newcomer, I'm not sure what "green" means. I guess its hard to explain a taste...
 
Jon,

As a newcomer, I'm not sure what "green" means. I guess its hard to explain a taste...


Yeah i know - even after so many years - it is hard to explain a "Green" taste.

If the wine is young - let it age a while.

In time you will begin to recognize a young tasting wine vs. an aged one..
 
im wondering if its the bentonite Package #2 added in step one, dunno about this kit, but the skeeter pee i made had the same issue instead of clearing and being ready to drink at its normal super fast rate I had to let it sit until the crazy bad bitterness went away. this was either A) young (green) wine or B) the bentonite added to the primary or C) a mixture of both. it took about 1-2 weeks after it finished fermenting for me to be able to drink/back sweeten it.

im kinda going with Dangers Bentonite study where he experienced bitterness as well from the batch which had the bentonite, as I have yet to make a batch without it.
 
Place 1/3 glass of Chardonnay in a wine glass and add 3 very shinny pennies. The pennies must not be oxidized.

Stir them around in the wine for about 3 minutes. Smell the wine again and determine if the sulfur smell has lessened. If it is less, the problem is likely H2S.

As was mentioned, a brand new Chardonnay will still be very tart (green).

I am a little confused about secondary. You should have left wine in primary until it reached some designated SG. At that time it should have been moved to secondary, air locked but not necessarily topped up. It should have stayed there until the SG stopped falling (several more days to a week or more, depending on instructions). Then the degassing and stabilizing should have been done and the wine racked to another carboy to clear.

How long did the wine stay in secondary before you stabilized?
 
As was already stated, figuring out if there is something wrong with a young wine can be very difficult. Add the fact that everyone tastes and smells things differently, troubleshooting (or even figuring out if theres IS a problem) can be very difficult. I find most wines, red and white, to be "sharp" when young. After 6 months to a year I find that usually goes away unless it's an exceptionally acidic wine.
 
Thanks for all the comments. In regards to the question about the secondary, we followed step 2 in the directions and racked to a secondary for one week before we followed step 3 (adding stabilizer etc). The wine probably is just young and I am new to winemaking. It actually has cleared wonderfully so far and I plan to let it sit in the carbon for a couple months before filtering and bottling.
 
If this is H2S that you are dealing with in your wine, the classic rotten egg smell--you must treat it, and the sooner the better. No amount of bulk aging will take care of it. Just remember if you opt to use the penny trick + splash racking to deal with it, make sure you are using a true copper penny (the new shiny pennies are not majority of copper and they don't do much). You can also use copper wire or kitchen copper dish scrubbers, etc. Your AllInOne will help immensely with the splash racking.

You mentioned this was a fast ferment, at 77F and asked if this could have been the cause. WELL, what is your definition of fast ferment--when did you pitch the yeast and when was the wine "finished"? What were starting/ending S.G. levels? Also, some yeasts will kick out large amounts of H2S and even more so with a warmer ferment temperature, etc. What yeast was used?

You expressed concern about the bentonite being a problem? I just want to say that the kit formulations have a lot of R&D done before they are ever released, and the bentonite that is included in the "recipe" is beneficial in more than just clearing the wine. Something to consider.

Hope everything works out for you!!
 
You don't have to use a true, solid copper penny. All recent pennies are copper coated zink. The copper coating is plenty to test for H2S. Just make sure it is shiny. It would take a lot of soaking to remove enough of the copper coating that it would not neutralize the H2S.

There are better solutions these days than just splash racking, which can result in oxidized wine.

As Saramc said, if you have H2S, don't think time will take care of it. If it is not treated and it eventually turns into a mercaptain problem, you are looking at pouring the wine down the drain.
 
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