WineXpert Full body

Hello,

I made a Cabernet Winexpert wine that is now 9 months old. The wine taste well and is general,y pleasant but the taste remains very “singular” and doesn’t have a lot of body.

Is it because of aging or is there something I am missing.

Thanks a lot.

What was the full name of the kit you made?

cheers

It is the Winexpert Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet Sauvignon Winemaking Kit

I have made this kit several times and i find it really impressed me around the 2 year mark. Now my idea of impressive may not be yours. As far as this kit goes, at 2 years it really softens up and looses that harsh edge. I make it every year as its one of our favs. Perhaps more time is needed for your batch.

cheers

yppaul, I have made the kit and found it a very good one. I put the grape skins in the bag and about twice a day I squeeze the skins during primary fermentation. When I rack to my secondary fermenter, I squeeze the living "ca-ca" out of the bag to get as much of the solids out of it. It is my wife's favorite wine. Give yours some time in the bottle to smooth it out. I don't think you will see much change in body unless you could barrel age it. Good luck.

The guys on the LP video said that very thing - at 9-12 months, the wine is just okay. But at 18-24 months it turned in to something stellar.

Mine spent six months in a barrel and is still bulk aging and is 13 months old. Will bottle in the next couple of months. Tastes ok now but I can tell it’ll be great in a year or so. Added extra tannin and an additional spiral

I don't put the oak cubes in until the wine is clear, and I let it sit on the oak foe 6 weeks. At the 6 week point the oak has given up its goodness.

My oldest Lodi 11 Cab turns 3 years tomorrow. I'm torn, I want to taste it but I don't want to lose another bottle. I'll wait for a nice night to BBQ a Porterhouse steak on the Kamado Joe I'm picking up this weekend and we'll crack a bottle open then. This wine transforms first between 18-21 months, then at about 26 months it changes again and is very very good. It takes about 2 years to develop a nose as part of that transformation. I'm anxious to see where it is now.

AZMDTed said:

My oldest Lodi 11 Cab turns 3 years tomorrow. I'm torn, I want to taste it but I don't want to lose another bottle. I'll wait for a nice night to BBQ a Porterhouse steak on the Kamado Joe I'm picking up this weekend and we'll crack a bottle open then. This wine transforms first between 18-21 months, then at about 26 months it changes again and is very very good. It takes about 2 years to develop a nose as part of that transformation. I'm anxious to see where it is now.

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Well????

How is it?

It wasn't as good as the last tasting a few months ago. I did note that the cork slid out very easily and wine had impregnated the cork almost all the way through. As it was my second batch I used very cheap corks and I fear that they're not providing the quality needed for 3+ years. It didn't taste like it was going bad, it just lacked the nose and body of my last tasting. For now, I'm considering this a one off bottle. I will try another in a while and see what I think.

AZMDTed said:

It wasn't as good as the last tasting a few months ago. I did note that the cork slid out very easily and wine had impregnated the cork almost all the way through. As it was my second batch I used very cheap corks and I fear that they're not providing the quality needed for 3+ years. It didn't taste like it was going bad, it just lacked the nose and body of my last tasting. For now, I'm considering this a one off bottle. I will try another in a while and see what I think.

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That's unfortunate. I think my Lodi Cab is approaching 2 years old after the new year. It was just okay at 18 months, and is getting better. Hoping for some of that magic to happen.

Do you think personal bias factors into your opinions of how much your kit wine is really transforming as it ages?
I know juice buckets well and would make just 1 annually for a long time. I’ve made some pretty good wine from them and aged 2-3 yrs and they were extremely good.
I started kits last year and was excited to broaden my winemaking. So far I’ve been pleased with how they’ve been going but haven’t got anything over 1 year yet.
But I did my 1st all-grape wines in May. And the body and fruit coming through already at 7 months are head and shoulders better than anything I’ve ever made from kits and juice. I almost feel guilty comparing them since they are so full with amazing potential. But it’s kind of disheartening since it’s impossible for me to not compare now when they are all bulk aging together.
So when discussing body of kit wines, for me at least, I think my personal bias was a factor and I was comparing the kit to its past self, not to grape or commercial wine. ——OR do they really take a hard turn at 2 yrs taking them to that same level?
It’s hard to explain and maybe I’m not wording correctly. Has anyone else experienced this regarding the body/nose/complexity of their kits?

Ajmassa5983 said:

Do you think personal bias factors into your opinions of how much your kit wine is really transforming as it ages?
I know juice buckets well and would make just 1 annually for a long time. I’ve made some pretty good wine from them and aged 2-3 yrs and they were extremely good.
I started kits last year and was excited to broaden my winemaking. So far I’ve been pleased with how they’ve been going but haven’t got anything over 1 year yet.
But I did my 1st all-grape wines in May. And the body and fruit coming through already at 7 months are head and shoulders better than anything I’ve ever made from kits and juice. I almost feel guilty comparing them since they are so full with amazing potential. But it’s kind of disheartening since it’s impossible for me to not compare now when they are all bulk aging together.
So when discussing body of kit wines, for me at least, I think my personal bias was a factor and I was comparing the kit to its past self, not to grape or commercial wine. ——OR do they really take a hard turn at 2 yrs taking them to that same level?
It’s hard to explain and maybe I’m not wording correctly. Has anyone else experienced this regarding the body/nose/complexity of their kits?

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It's funny, a couple of years ago we had members on this board complain that kits should not be allowed in competition because they had an unfair advantage over wine made from grapes.

GaDawg said:

It's funny, a couple of years ago we had members on this board complain that kits should not be allowed in competition because they had an unfair advantage over wine made from grapes.

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I guess that’s where the “potential” comes into play. Hoping the full bodied fruit bomb settles and it balances itself.
Tho I did do my research with acid corrections MLF etc... but I hear ya. It’s a lot more work to not only get it right, but also knowing HOW to get it and keep it right compared to prebalanced buckets or kits. But for this thread, Just in terms of body, I was blown away by the grape wine fared in spite of the young age. Long way to go tho.

I actually forgot to say my whole original point! smh.
For body I feel like the best bet is to ALWAYS add extra grapes or skins to kits when possible. Either fresh, frozen or that mosti grape pack Ive used. I shoulda saved my press cake from fall but contained mlb. I tossed w/o even looking into 1st.
Agreed Extra tannin and oaking later also. But it’s all about them grapes for better body and an actual nose on kits and buckets. (I gotta get that barrel!)

Regarding Personal Bias: Funny thing about bias is that we are often ignorant of it, so I won't rule it out. However, I'm a pretty straight forward guy without romantic ideas of things that go along with expectations. Maybe that's why you'll never see me describe wine in the usual froo froo terms, my favorite of which is from the move Somm, I think the quote was "a smell of a newly opened can of tennis balls" or something like that.

I've got Lodi Cab kits from six months old to 3 years old spaced just a couple months apart. I think I have a pretty good basis to judge my wines aging. I wasn't expecting major changes after 18 months and was pleasantly surprised to find them. Likewise, when a bottle isn't good on a particular night I'm fine with saying that too. There are many other factors at play besides bias that might influence how a wine feels or tastes on a given night. As we all know the meal you're eating it with will change the perceived taste of wine. One night the meal may be more salty or sweet than the last taste and thus changed the perceived body and taste when perhaps no change happened at all.

Last week we ate at an Italian restaurant and bought a $44 bottle of Chianti. We weren't impressed. After we flew back home I opened one of my 2 year old bottles of Sangiovese. It was on par, if not ever so slightly better than the restaurant wine. Of course the $44 bottle we had is probably $18 in most stores, but still I'm happy with the comparison. Last night I opened a 2 year old Eclipse Pinot that got one of the first outings in a Vadai barrel last year, it was very good.

Since I'm happy with my kit wines, and I've experimented with adding Chilean grapes to a Cab last spring (too early to tell if it helped), I won't worry about whether kits are better or worse than juice buckets or all grapes. Maybe someday after I retire I'll have enough time to take on more projects that start from grapes, but I'm very happy where I am now in my wine making.

My bottom line is that I enjoy the process of making my wine, I make wine that my wife and I find pleasing, I'm doing it with many varieties of wine, and I can do it at a cost that doesn't make me think twice about having wine every night. What's not to like about that?

Well said. I like the process so much that it’s become fun for me to learn more and keep improving after doing the same thing for a long time.
Ive always given out more than I keep. But now the bar I’ve set for myself keeps raising naturally as I continue- which I welcome.
It’s a great feeling to give someone a bottle and be told “wow your wines have come a long way over the years”.