Sourdough Starters

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montanaWineGuy

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I now have 2 starters fermenting. 1 with bread yeast, and the other with wine yeast. If there is no difference in taste I'll combine them, but I'm hoping the wine yeast will give a more flavorful taste to the bread.

Sourdough French Bread <------------ :db
 
I would have thought that sourdough does not in fact use saccharomyces cerevisiae, but lactic and other bacteria that sour the dough. I have made bread with ale dough and with the sediment from mead but I was not looking for a 'sour dough', although next time I brew a batch of beer my plan is to hold back a few cups of the spent grains and allow them to sour and use that liquor to sour the dough. Is your technique to make a sponge and then allow the sponge to age a week or ten days before incorporating more flour into the dough and then baking the bread?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_cerevisiae
 
I would have thought that sourdough does not in fact use saccharomyces cerevisiae, but lactic and other bacteria that sour the dough. I have made bread with ale dough and with the sediment from mead but I was not looking for a 'sour dough', although next time I brew a batch of beer my plan is to hold back a few cups of the spent grains and allow them to sour and use that liquor to sour the dough. Is your technique to make a sponge and then allow the sponge to age a week or ten days before incorporating more flour into the dough and then baking the bread?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_cerevisiae

It is my understanding that sourdough is a living culture containing both yeast for lift and LAB for sourness.
 
:u

The starter with the wine yeast is taking off. More then doubled in volume, while the regular yeast is less then double. Suppose to be the other way around.

I'm ready for my mixer, NOW! :ft
 
The starter wasn't quite ready, hadn't started making a sour smell yet. Still, very tasty and lots of flavorful holes in the bread. Sourdough pizza tomorrow and the starter is finally starting to smell like it's ready to be sour.

SourdoughAndMixer 002.jpg
 
I used the recipe you cited and made a bunch of sourdough rolls on Wednesday and while the starter was still too young to be truly sour the rolls came out very well. I will feed the starter for another week or so and then make another batch and see if the dough has more 'bite' to the flavor. So thanks for the post.
 
Been over 3 weeks since I got my starter going, and it's taken on a nice smell like I expected. I use it regularly, and so it has been worked on quite a bit. Next evolution is baking in a cast iron Dutch Oven. While I wait to get the DO, I'm attempting to bake a loaf in my Crock Pot. This one should be interesting.
 
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Ah, yes. I bake my bread in a Le Creuset pot. You need to change out the plastic handle for a steel one if you want to heat it to 500 degrees. I pre-heat it at 500 - throw in the bread and cover it. The steam helps it rise. After about 30 min I take the lid off to brown it up.
 
Ah, yes. I bake my bread in a Le Creuset pot. You need to change out the plastic handle for a steel one if you want to heat it to 500 degrees. I pre-heat it at 500 - throw in the bread and cover it. The steam helps it rise. After about 30 min I take the lid off to brown it up.

You know the rules... it never really happened....
 
I'm looking to get this Lodge Dutch Oven.

0aeb18c2795241eee7afe4bc92abc3.jpg
 
That's a nice pot. But I would prefer a handle on the top to lift the lid. When you preheat the pot to very high temperatures, it would be difficult to get that top off with your hands in oven mitts.
 
That's a nice pot. But I would prefer a handle on the top to lift the lid. When you preheat the pot to very high temperatures, it would be difficult to get that top off with your hands in oven mitts.

The lid acts as a skillet also. The secret to lifting the lid is to have it offset from the lower handles so it's an easy grab and straight lift.
 
This is the starter I use:

Sourdough Starter

3 tablespoons instant mashed potato flakes
3 tablespoons white sugar
1 cup warm water
2 1/4 teaspoons active dry yeast

Directions

1. Combine instant potatoes, sugar, water, and yeast
in a covered container. Let the starter sit on a counter
for 5 days, stirring daily with a wooden spoon.
2. On the morning of the fifth day, feed the starter with
3 tablespoons instant potatoes, 3 tablespoons sugar, and
1 cup warm water. In the evening, take out 1 cup of the starter
to use in a sourdough recipe. Refrigerate the remaining starter.
3. Every five days, feed the starter 3 tablespoons instant
potatoes, 3 tablespoons sugar and 1 cup water. If starter
is to be used in a recipe, let the fed starter rest at room
temperature 6 hours before use. If starter is not being used
in a recipe, keep refrigerated and discard 1 cup of starter
after each feeding.

This is my bread recipe also:

SOURDOUGH BREAD

1 cup sourdough starter
1 1/2 cups warm water
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1/2 cup white sugar
1/2 cup corn oil
6 cups bread flour

Directions
1 Mix sugar, corn oil, salt, water, and 1 cup of starter
together in a large bowl. Sift the flour and add to the mixture.
Grease or oil the dough. Place the dough in an oiled bowl,
cover, and let rise overnight.
2 The next day, knead the dough for 10 minutes. Divide in half,
and place into two greased 4 x 8 inch bread pans. Allow the dough
to double in size.
3 Bake at 350 degrees F (175 degrees C) for 40 to 45 minutes,
or until bread is golden brown and taps hollow. Turn out to cool
on wire racks.
 
As with most starters though, the older it is the better it gets.

I'm learning that. I'm so into it I bought a special jar for the starter. Glass lid for the glass jar, with a lip so it can breath. What's so cool is I no longer add yeast to the bread mix. Self rising, same ingredients, just some of it readies itself in the fridge over a weeks time.
 
I've been struggling with my Sourdough lately. Following the recipe is hit or miss, depending on how wet your starter is. To adjust for this I've increased my starter quantity, and now add flour incrementally to achieve a moist sticky dough. Additionally, I now have a Trivet at the bottom of the Dutch Oven that allows me to add a bit of water. This will create a boiling vapor in the sealed DO. Now my Sourdough bread is finally approaching San Francisco Style Sourdough flavor. :D

I've also started to toss different things into my starter. Different types of flour, beer, wine, whatever...

SourdoughBread 001 (1024x768).jpg
 
Yeah... but I doubt that your bread will ever really develop a true SF sourdough flavor. Terroir is really critical - I am not being ironic. The particular variety of bacteria and yeast that makes up SF sourdough does not exist anywhere except in SF and by all accounts, even if you were to capture a critical mass of the leavening agents there and bring them home, the flour, the water, the food you feed the sourdough, all will slowly , slowly transform the character of the starter into one that more resembles other more local starters. That is the nature of the beast..
 
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