Can't get the gas out of Elderberry wine

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shinewine

Junior
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Hi everyone:

I'm new to winemaking and this forum, and hope you experts can help. I decided I had enough elderberry jelly and tried some elderberry wine last fall september. I purchased the right equipment. Practiced sanitary methods, etc. All is well. It even tastes delicious. Except for one thing. Too much gas.

Bought the whip, but as I used it and used it, I was afraid of oxygenation, and I thought it wasn't working because upon tasting, it still was bubbly. So I bought a more expensive degasser. Still didn't work. So, I read the wine mag experts and we purchased a vacuum pump. We had the pump on there for over 30 minutes. And it kept degassing and depassing. We added implements to increase the nucleation (sp) points, and more gas. The pressure was initially 27 and after 20 mins went up to 29, and we were afraid to continue to degas anymore. So, we tasted it, and it has more Co2 than pop. (yes, I'm from pittsburgh).

I have 2 carboys of some otherwise really great tasting elderberry wine. One oaked, the other not. Both with too much gas. I made some kits wines for drinking right away, as I knew it would take some time for the elderberry to be done. But now, the elderberry is strong in alcohol, dry, tasty, clear, but gassy...HELP.....

Thanks.

Everything was working well.
 
I have read on the forum that splash racking will help remove CO2. As mentioned above, the temperature of the wine should be at least 75* in order to release the CO2. I read somewhere that if the wine is young and stabalized, you can pour it from one container to another container and that will de-gass it, but the wine must me young and stabalized good. I would also check the SpGr for several days to make sure that you are not creating more CO2 ( I speak from experience on that one). Wait for a better answer, because I'm new at this wine making also and I may not be giving you good advice. Seems like the article said this was okay if the wine was a fast drinker. Others will tell you to age the wine for about a year and and it will de-gass on it's own, I feel sure that would work but those of us that are new to wine making don't want to wait a year, we'd rather have it in the bottle in a month. Wine is kinda like a wet rope, you can't push it.
Semper Fi
 
The temp of the wine is 75 degrees. And ETB, trust me, splashing it isn't doing anything. The wine was started in September of last year, and I'm not in a hurry to drink it, but I do want the gas out.
 
Try vacuum racking it to a different carboy. Let is sit for a couple of weeks to a month or so and vac. rack it again. This has worked for me in the past. My biggest problem is usually to cool of temps, tho. Arne.
 
My wine room is at 55F, I been reading on vacuum Degassing should be done at room temperature. I don't like the fact to warm up my wine to then place it back at 55F. Does it have any affect to vacuum rack from one carboy to another at 55F and then bottling it or will I be wasting my time.
 
I don't know how to vacuum rack, Arne. Is this something that I can use my vacuum pump for, and if so, do you have any links or ideas how to create a setup to do this? I'm wondering this, as well, now, Arne, now that you got my wheels turning. I had a silicone burping bung on the carboy and switched to a bung with an airlock to see if I could see any Co2 escape, and it doesn't appear to be. Nor has it appeared to be in months. So, how does bulk aging, as some suggest, get the gas out, if I don't see it coming out? Just wondering if you...or anyone knew.

thesnow, can't help you there. You might want to ask that as a separate question, but it makes sense that you (Or I) wouldn't want to do that. I don't have the ability to keep my wine at a steady 55, so I don't worry about it. The coolest I can keep mine in the summer is about 65. Whether your question is answered here or elsewhere, I'll be watching. It's a great question.

Thanks new friends.
 
What was your initial specific gravity and what is it now?

An inexpensive way to degas is to use one of these with a 7.5 bung.

4b1afb5a4fcd1_115148n.jpg


Don't forget there is also a wine whip that will help degas your wine. Either way the wine needs to be at least 75 degrees or you are wasting your time.
 
To vacuum rack, you need a double hole bung of some kind. I use the orange carboy caps. The donar carboy that has your wine in it needs to have a racking cane to the bottom. the recieving carboy needs the cap or double hole bung with another racking cane. I put the cane to the bottom. A hose runs from one cane to the other. I put a tight fitting hose in the other hole from the recieveing carboy. I attach this to my vacuum pump. Make sure the recieving carboy is a glass one, not a better bottle. You have the potential of colapsing a plastic bottle. Most folks put a wine trap between the recieving carboy and the vac. pump. It is just a jar with a tight lid with the hose from the recieving carboy going to the bottom and the hose from the jar going to the pump towards the top. you can seal them with a silicone sealer. This keeps any wine that gets from the recieving carboy from getting to your vac. pump. I actually skip this as my vac. pump is an oil type. If any wine gets to it, I will just change the oil. Anyway, turn the pump on and slowly increase the vac. The wine should transfer from one bottle to the other. You can vac it level, uphill or down. Don't have to lift the full carboys any more. Somewhere on the forum there is a pic of the setup. Think you will find it with a little searching. Good luck with it. Arne.
 
Thanks Arne. I'll give it a try. My hubs can probably figure it out from your description, but I will search it.
 
Shinewine : first, are you absolutely sure this wine is no longer fermenting? And are you degassing at a temperature above 72F? For an elderberry wine that you started in September I will just say it: you are rushing it. That wine will be in its prime around 2 or 3 years. Sometimes you can pull an elderberry off at one year, but you are not even at one year yet. Step away from the carboy away and don't touch it again until you need to with rack it again or dose it with k-meta.


You say you bought a vacuum pump were you using to degas and that was not successful? When you did this, did you actually see bubbles forming, like water boiling? If your wine was ready to be degassed, and was at the appropriate temperature and if you used the vacuum properly it would have degassed it--no doubt about that.

You asked about using your vacuum for vacuum racking---it just depends on what type of vacuum you bought---it is brake bleeder, a handheld wine saver pump, and Enolmatic, or my personal lifesaver: All-in-One Wine Pump http://www.allinonewinepump.com/

Here is a link to Valley Vintner's site, on VACUUM RACKING, they have some other videos also. Use the internet you will find many useful videos on how to do things especially with vacuum pump for your wine: http://valleyvintner.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=cp-how-to-videos

Don't rely upon airlock activity to determine if your wine still has CO2 or not, that is not its purpose. When your wine is rolling along days into your ferment that is one thing, but later on down the road don't count on the airlock to "tell all". I have wine that has been under airlock for going on 2 years now (one is an elderberry) and occassionally a bubble will roll due to barometric pressure changes, definitely not due to CO2 release because that wine is quite degassed.

You will get the kinks worked out---just don't rush it. Seriously, elderberry really does take a while but it is well worth it.

For thesnow---you can vacuum rack at any temperature, same with bottling.
 
OK for vacuum racking at any temperature to bottle, but my question was to vacuum rack to Degas into another carboy first and then right after to vacuum rack to bottle. All done at temperature 55F.
Seems that I need to place the carboy at room temperature wait 24 hrs so the wine becomes room temperature to Degas into another carboy. I think its maybe not a good idea to warm up the wine if its been sitting for 10 months. I already racked it once to remove the sediments. If I plan to place it in a warmer environment I would need to rack it again to remove any left over sediments before moving the carboy into a warmer environment to Degas it. I will be doing an additional racking.
 
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To vacuum rack, you need a double hole bung of some kind. I use the orange carboy caps. The donar carboy that has your wine in it needs to have a racking cane to the bottom. the recieving carboy needs the cap or double hole bung with another racking cane. I put the cane to the bottom. A hose runs from one cane to the other. I put a tight fitting hose in the other hole from the recieveing carboy. I attach this to my vacuum pump. Make sure the recieving carboy is a glass one, not a better bottle. You have the potential of colapsing a plastic bottle. Most folks put a wine trap between the recieving carboy and the vac. pump. It is just a jar with a tight lid with the hose from the recieving carboy going to the bottom and the hose from the jar going to the pump towards the top. you can seal them with a silicone sealer. This keeps any wine that gets from the recieving carboy from getting to your vac. pump. I actually skip this as my vac. pump is an oil type. If any wine gets to it, I will just change the oil. Anyway, turn the pump on and slowly increase the vac. The wine should transfer from one bottle to the other. You can vac it level, uphill or down. Don't have to lift the full carboys any more. Somewhere on the forum there is a pic of the setup. Think you will find it with a little searching. Good luck with it. Arne.

Hey Arne and everyone else. Well, it took some time, but I finally learned how to gas rack. I had to do it 6 times back and forth, but the FINALLY the gas is out and my Elderberry is delicious. Now to figure out how much p-meta to put in for the final rack before bottling. I don't have the measuring kit and I'm not buying one, so.....Thanks everyone.
 
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