Problematic Basil Wine

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MedPretzel

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Hello all,





I've had a problematic basil wine that I am sort of at my wit's end with. I need some ideas.
smiley18.gif
It's stuck, but I don't know why. I've added the yeast starter with a different yeast type, I've heated it up with the brew belt, and it's just not moving.


The taste? Well, sweet, like the SG would predict, but it's carbonated like mad. I thought maybe the SG could be a "false-positive" so-to-speak because of the trapped CO2, but the more I fizz-ex it, the worse it gets. MLF is my other "maybe." I don't know. It does not smell bad, and the taste? Like asuper-duper light wine, but has a hint of hotness toit.


I cando one of the following:
<UL>
<LI>Dump it. You know me, I don't wanna, but if it's a goner, I'll do it.</LI>
<LI>Make a green-basil wine, and split this one into two green-basil ones and have a basil-rose'.</LI>
<LI>Keep it until I die. (It'll probably still be bubbling then)</LI>[/list]


Here's an outtake of my word-file wine-log:
<DIV =Section1>
<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">
Name of Wine: Purple Basil 2005 <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />[/I]
ID: 05-18
Started: <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:date Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005">10-15-2005</st1:date>
Amount: 5 gallons
Starting SG: 1.080
Potential alcohol:
Yeast strain: Premier Cuvee

Fruit: All the basil at Sonja’s farm.
<DIV =Section2>
Sugar: 10 lbs
Water to: 5 gallons
Acid blend: 5 tsp
Pectic Enzyme: 3 tsp
Tannin: 3 tsp
Yeast nutrient: 5 tsp
Yeast energizer: 3 tsp


Notes:



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<T>
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Date</TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 365.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=487>
Comments</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1">
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<st1:date Month="10" Day="25" Year="2005">10/25/2005</st1:date></TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 365.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=487>
Temperature 64 F. Added 2 cans of grape concentrate, added Premier Cuvee yeast. Used water from the basement. Oak chips added.</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 2">
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 77.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=103>
<st1:date Month="11" Day="7" Year="2005">11/7/2005</st1:date></TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 365.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=487>
Racked into new 5 gallon carboy. Still seems to be fermenting at a rapid pace.</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 3">
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 77.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=103>
<st1:date Month="11" Day="18" Year="2005">11/18/05</st1:date></TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 365.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=487>
pH - 3.46</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 4">
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 77.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=103>
<st1:date Month="12" Day="18" Year="2005">12/18/2005</st1:date></TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 365.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=487>
SG 1.038!!!</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 5">
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 77.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=103>
<st1:date Month="1" Day="31" Year="2006">1/31/2006</st1:date></TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 365.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=487>
Added yeast starter. Seems to be working now. Put the BrewBelt around it and looking good.</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 6">
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2-19-2005</TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 365.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=487>
Fizz Exed it, and it really showed a lot of fizz. Reminded me of ***gulp*** MLF. SG before and after Fizzing, 1.030</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 7">
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 77.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=103>
2-23-2006</TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 365.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=487>
Still bubbling like mad, the SG is still at 1.030.</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 8; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes">
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</TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 365.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; : transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=487>
</TD></TR></T></TABLE>
<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">
Click to expand...
[/I]
<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">[/I]
Any suggestions?
 
Well, I don't think it's fermenting..... It can't be, if the SG isn't changing, or?
 
Don't that make you mad????...had it once with a chokecherry..finally I added more acid, yeast energizer and stirred it everyday, it would bubble after the stirring...and it eventually dropped the S.G. and it was done....turned out okay too.... but really needed some TLC.
Didn't think you would ever have problems like the rest of us..
smiley2.gif

Edited by: masta
 
Northern Winos said:
Didn't think you would ever have problems like ther rest of us..
smiley2.gif
Click to expand...


Don't think that the longer you've made wine, the less apt youar e to have a hard fermentation!


It can happen to anyone.


Thanks for the link, NW... But I added plenty of nutrient. in the starter/re-starter.





:(
 
Reason #6 mentions that vegetable [etc] wines are tough on yeast...not their natural food group...looks like you used plenty of acid to start with too...but at this point you can try almost anything...
smiley17.gif
Edited by: Northern Winos
 
Martina,


I have no answers, just questions. Did you sulfite the must prior to pitching the yeast? What type of grape concentrate did you use? Did you take a specific gravity reading on 11/07/05 when you racked to the carboy? How did you prepare the yeast starter on 01/31/06 and how was it added to the wine?


Like you, I hate dumping a wine.
 
Just some thoughts...

1. Unless basil has a lot of malic acid, MLF wouldn't be likely.
2. Your log indicates that you last racked on 11/7. If it is sitting on some
lees, rack again, then Fizz-x. A lot of gas comes up from the sediment, and
will give you that "false reading".
3. Check SG with your other hydrometer - see if it offers a different reading.
4. Give it two weeks in the cold!

Good luck. Maybe it just needs even more time
smiley5.gif
 
#1. I have no idea if basil has malic or not


#2.sorry, racked about 2-1-06.... didn't mention it, but
smiley5.gif



before that, I'd say no racking. No sediment fell, so I didn't think it was necessary.


#3. other hydrometer say sthe same thing. 1.030!!!
smiley18.gif
I'm beginning to hate winemaking.


#4. Ya think? Cold would held fermentation? I thought it only helped with clearing/clarity problems.
 
I think I'm with B-I-M at this point. It's better than dumping it and you don't want to bottle it w/bubbles. What's the worst thing that the cold will do to it?
smiley11.gif
smiley36.gif



Give it the 2 weeks, rack it, don't take the fizz-x near it. Put it under a box for 2 months after racking and make some beer.Get your map of Texas out and start making plans. Too bad you can't take it with you in a carboy on the plane! We could just drink it all at Winestock!
 
Joseph said:
Martina,


I have no answers, just questions. Did you sulfite the must prior to pitching the yeast? What type of grape concentrate did you use? Did you take a specific gravity reading on 11/07/05 when you racked to the carboy? How did you prepare the yeast starter on 01/31/06 and how was it added to the wine?


Like you, I hate dumping a wine.
Click to expand...





Sorry Joseph, I missed your post last night.


Yes, I sulfited the must, but like usual. I used 100% grape concentrate (welch's) - contained no sulfites. At 11/07/05, I did not take an sg. The yeast starter for the vinter's harvest wine I made was split into two. See the "how-to" discussion part to see it. It was not added to the wine, the wine was added to it. 1 cup in morning, one cup in the evening. Under the how to, I also gave a description on how to unstick a stuck fermentation.


I think I'm just going to leave it. The thing is, is that I'm going out of town in about a week, and I'll deal with it when I come home.
smiley5.gif
 
Do you think it is too late during the fermentation to add more grape juice or apple juice...something for the yeast to live on besides sugar, water and a vegetable??? Just a thought.
smiley1.gif
 
According to Jack Keller’s website, 10 lbs of sugar in 5 gallons should result in a specific gravity of about 1.090. The amount of sugar in the must would have increased by the addition of the grape concentrate. I would guess that at the time you tried to restart, the alcohol content was about 9% (hint of hotness to the taste). The toxic environment it was thrown into may have shocked the starter.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />

I used the following procedure to re-start a particularly tough batch of blueberry wine. Prepare the yeast starter using either the Red Star Premium Cuvee or the Lalvin EC-1118 yeast. Once the starter begins to ferment, add a cup of your wine to the starter. This is where the procedure differs from the stuck fermentation procedure under “How to”. Once this begins to ferment, add two cups of the wine to the starter. When this gets going, add a quart of wine to the starter. Keep doubling your addition until you get the entire batch fermenting.

Lowering the temperature will slow the yeast activity. Too low and the yeast will go dormant. The lower end of the temperature range for the Premium Cuvee or the EC-1118 yeast is 45 degrees. However, the yeast is probably stressed because of the alcohol environment and may go dormant before reaching this temperature.

Whether or not basil has malic acid, it was likely in the acid blend and in the grape juice concentrate.
 

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