confused

I've read a whole lot on wine making and get more confused the more I read. For instance, I have read that when fermenting you should aerate the must in the beginning to give the yeast some oxygen, but then use airlock to prevent further oxidation, but then I read another place where it says just use a pillowcase or some other type of covering that will allow gas to escape but keep bugs out, not necessarily an airlock. That's the first thing that confused me since a pillowcase would seemingly certainly allow oxygen in the whole time and certainly would allow oxygen in if you had to open it to take a sg reading. Another thing that confuses me is that in one place I'm reading that splashing is good during the first racking, but then in another place I read where splashing is bad during the first racking.

Can any of you clear this up?

One other thing I'm worried about is that I'm currently attempting my very first wine batch and it fermented like crazy the first few days judging by the burping the airlock was doing, but now 5 days later the burping has all but ceased. Is that okay?

Thanks
Brad

Just follow instructions from your Kit. Those are the best instructions you can use.

Splash racking, introducing oxygen to your wine can be benificial. If you have a ways to go on your ferment, the extra oxygen can help the yeast ferment to dry. The loose cover on top will allow oxygen to get into the container, but will keep bugs and dirt out. I have to put a lid on top as the wife has a new kitten, but do not snap it down. Just a tea towel and layt the lid on. As long as your wine is still fermenting, adding the oxygen to it should help it, and if you are getting any off oders in it, the oxygen can help to get rid of them.
You should be stirring the must every day, I usually stir it twice a day when the ferment is in the primary. Here again we are introducing oxygen to the must to help it finish fermenting. When the specific gravity gets down to 1.010 or so, then it is time to snap the lid and airlock on. Your wine sounds like you might be getting down to that point or lower. When it gets below 1.000 and stays the same for 3 days or longer, it is time to rack it to your secondary. At that time, you can stabilize it, add sulfite, and add a clearing agent. Then time to sit back and watch it for a while, let it get clear, sweeten if you like and down the road a ways bottle. Good luck with it, Arne.

As Mike advises, look at the directions. You should see reference to primary and secondary fermentation. In Primary fermentation, the process is vigorous and gives off a great amount of CO2. Because of this outgassing, there is little to no possibility of oxygen invading the wine to any great (harmful) extent. In secondary fermentation (beginning variously at SG 1.020-1.040), the process slows somewhat so some protection against oxygen (i.e. an airlock) is needed. In primary fermentation, therefore, you do not need to cover the fermenter with anything other than a cloth to protect against foreign matter falling into the wine. In secondary, you need the airlock.

In your particular wine, what was the initial SG? What is the SG at present? It sounds like you had it in a carboy the whole time because you had an airlock on it. During primary fermentation (aeorbic) you do need some exposure to air to help the yeast work. Take the SG now and see what it is. You many have a stuck fermentation.

EDIT: Sorry Arne, I was typing while you were answering. I did not mean to step on your reply which was excellent.

Disclaimer: I am not a pro at this! But...from what I have heard and read it sounds like following the kit instructions is the best way to go for newbies. I put my first batch under an airlock in the primary and have just let it do its thing. Seems that if you mix it well and have the temperature right it will mostly take care of itself.

That being said it is hard to resist the impulse to mess with it

For non-kit wines it seems there are a million little changes you can make along the way. I would say try it and see if it works (stirring, not stirring, splashing when racking, airlock, no airlock, etc.). I am trying to keep good notes so that down the road I can look back and see what seemed to work best. It's all one big learning experiment!

mikev63 said:

Just follow instructions from your Kit. Those are the best instructions you can use.

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Thanks Mike

Arne said:

Splash racking, introducing oxygen to your wine can be benificial. If you have a ways to go on your ferment, the extra oxygen can help the yeast ferment to dry. The loose cover on top will allow oxygen to get into the container, but will keep bugs and dirt out. I have to put a lid on top as the wife has a new kitten, but do not snap it down.

Click to expand...

This helps tremendously as I also have a new kitten. I had my lid snapped tight and wasn't allowing any oxygen in, so I think I now know why my fermentation has slowed so dramatically.

Just a tea towel and layt the lid on. As long as your wine is still fermenting, adding the oxygen to it should help it, and if you are getting any off oders in it, the oxygen can help to get rid of them.
You should be stirring the must every day, I usually stir it twice a day when the ferment is in the primary. Here again we are introducing oxygen to the must to help it finish fermenting. When the specific gravity gets down to 1.010 or so, then it is time to snap the lid and airlock on. Your wine sounds like you might be getting down to that point or lower. When it gets below 1.000 and stays the same for 3 days or longer, it is time to rack it to your secondary.

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Is this true even if the instructions say to wait 14 days? If I understand you correctly, it isn't the amount of time that matters, it is simply the hydrometer readings that matter.... correct?

At that time, you can stabilize it, add sulfite, and add a clearing agent. Then time to sit back and watch it for a while, let it get clear, sweeten if you like and down the road a ways bottle. Good luck with it, Arne.

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Thanks for the reply

I appreciate your confusion. The practice of using a sheet or cloth over the must is legitimate. This practice is usually used with freshly crushed grapes and fruit wines. For example, this past year I helped out at a local vineyard. After crushing red grapes, the must was pumped into a large fermenter (say about 250 gallons). Sheets were draped over the fermenter to keep bugs out. Keep in mind that freshly crushed red grapes have the skins in the fermenter. The skins float to the top forming a very thick cap that is often a 12-24 inches thick. This cap is punched down about three times per day. Pumps are used to pump the juice onto of the plug. These pumps are usually controlled by a timer so the winemaker does not need to be there in the middle of the night. The sheet is kept over the wine for about a week until the SG is 1.000 or lower. At that point the wine below the cap is pumped out and the remaining skins that made up the cap are pressed. This wine is now placed in a keg or carboy and air locked. At this point malolactic fermentation is initiated by adding MLF bacteria.

I used a sheet on top of my 12 gallons of apple wine during its initial fermentation also. After 7-10 days, when fermentation is complete, the wine was moved into a carboy and air locked.

Kits are different in that most instructions have the wine in your primary fermenter with a closed rather than using a cloth. I figure the closed lid provides a level of protection for the wine… keep in mind you will not have a cap like you normally would with fresh grape wine or fruit wine. As the others suggested, follow kit instructions.

Rocky said:

As Mike advises, look at the directions. You should see reference to primary and secondary fermentation. In Primary fermentation, the process is vigorous and gives off a great amount of CO2. Because of this outgassing, there is little to no possibility of oxygen invading the wine to any great (harmful) extent.

Click to expand...

Okay, see this is confusing to me since Arne above states that oxygen during primary is not harmful, but if I'm reading you correctly, you are saying it potentially is.

In secondary fermentation (beginning variously at SG 1.020-1.040), the process slows somewhat so some protection against oxygen (i.e. an airlock) is needed. In primary fermentation, therefore, you do not need to cover the fermenter with anything other than a cloth to protect against foreign matter falling into the wine. In secondary, you need the airlock.

In your particular wine, what was the initial SG?

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Initial sg was 1.055

What is the SG at present?

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It is now 1.000

Should I add more sugar?

It sounds like you had it in a carboy the whole time because you had an airlock on it.

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No, I had it in a 6 gal fermenting bucket with a tight lid and airlock.

During primary fermentation (aeorbic) you do need some exposure to air to help the yeast work. Take the SG now and see what it is. You many have a stuck fermentation.

EDIT: Sorry Arne, I was typing while you were answering. I did not mean to step on your reply which was excellent.

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Here are a few pics of red wine being made. One pic shows wine being pumped into a large plastic fermenter while the other shows wine that has been kept in a large stainless steel tank. In both cases you can see the skin cap. It would be normal practice to have a sheet over both of these fermenters.

PCharles said:

.....As the others suggested, follow kit instructions.

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Yeah the kit is rjspagnols orchard breezin mist cruz voignier and it says to use a lid with airlock. It does not say to do anything else for 14 days.

Thanks for your help

bhmjones:

Oxygen in the beginning is a good thing (the yeast needs it). Oxygen once the wine is degassed and clearing is a bad thing. In between those two steps, opinions vary greatly. Personally, I think that oxygen is not a major problem at the end of the fermentation process, but the wine should be moved to a carboy (and the O2 restricted) fairly quickly at that point.

Kit companies tell you to stir vigourously before pitching the yeast to incorporate O2 into the must and to mix the concentrate/water/bentonite. It's not necessary to stir after that unless dealing with something that floats (grape skins, oak tea bag, whatever).

Steve

bhmjones,

When you first start a wine, it needs oxygen to give the yeast a good start in changing sugar to alcohol. Once you get down to around 1.010, the yeast are on a good roll so at this point they really do not need that much oxygen (it is like a ball rolling down a hill, you have to push it to get it going but once you do you no longer need to push it) so you would either rack to a carboy and add an airlock or snap down the lid and add an airlock.

Hydrometer readings are your utmost important issue, the reading will tell you whether or not your wine is done fermenting.

Whether you rack to a carboy and let it finish there or whether you snap down a lid is a personal preference, there are advantages to both.

Does this help?

cpfan said:

bhmjones:

Oxygen in the beginning is a good thing (the yeast needs it). Oxygen once the wine is degassed and clearing is a bad thing. In between those two steps, opinions vary greatly. Personally, I think that oxygen is not a major problem at the end of the fermentation process, but the wine should be moved to a carboy (and the O2 restricted) fairly quickly at that point.

Kit companies tell you to stir vigourously before pitching the yeast to incorporate O2 into the must and to mix the concentrate/water/bentonite. It's not necessary to stir after that unless dealing with something that floats (grape skins, oak tea bag, whatever).

Steve

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Ah, so you wouldn't follow Arne's advice to stir up to twice per day?

Julie said:

bhmjones,

When you first start a wine, it needs oxygen to give the yeast a good start in changing sugar to alcohol. Once you get down to around 1.010, the yeast are on a good roll so at this point they really do not need that much oxygen (it is like a ball rolling down a hill, you have to push it to get it going but once you do you no longer need to push it) so you would either rack to a carboy and add an airlock or snap down the lid and add an airlock.

Hydrometer readings are your utmost important issue, the reading will tell you whether or not your wine is done fermenting.

Whether you rack to a carboy and let it finish there or whether you snap down a lid is a personal preference, there are advantages to both.

Does this help?

Click to expand...

It helps in as much as I understand that oxygen isn't as horrible as I once thought, but like I asked above, I need to know if I absolutely have to wait the 14 days like the kit says before racking, or since my sg is now down to 1.000 from a beginning of 1.055 after only 5 days, can I go ahead and begin the finishing process?

Mr Jones, Remember "KISS" Keep It Simple" I started out using an ailock from day 1. Never sturring, never worring and it always came out fine. We always get confused between techniques and Instructions. if you have a Kitten I would (as a Technique) keep the lid tight with an airlock on it. you HAVE THE OPTION of sturring the must to help the yeast out (technique). As the fermenting slows down (which is why you see things slowing down) you run the risk of oxygination so you no longer want to stir it and, as per the instructions, keep the lid on with an airlock. If the instructions tell you to rack it into a carboy at 1.01 Sg I would do that (like Mike said).

If your kit has a grape pack, sturring the must is a MUST but the tight lid is still an option. again, with a kitten I would recomend it. But other than that Mike is SPOT ON. Follow the instructions at 1st and pick up Techniques as you go along.

bhmjones said:

It helps in as much as I understand that oxygen isn't as horrible as I once thought, but like I asked above, I need to know if I absolutely have to wait the 14 days like the kit says before racking, or since my sg is now down to 1.000 from a beginning of 1.055 after only 5 days, can I go ahead and begin the finishing process?

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I'd wait... I'm surprised your starting SG was 1.055. That seems low. It should have been 1.085 or higher. Do the instructions not indicate what your starting SG should have been?

Again, I'd wait. I was the same way with my first kit, wanting to move the process along faster. After you get some bottles in the rack you'll not be in such a hurry. Extended contact with the skins will give you a deeper richer flavor in the long run.

Wait untill you have the same SG for a few days in a row. you want to make sure teh fermentation is complete.

shoebiedoo said:

Mr Jones, Remember "KISS" Keep It Simple"

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I like that

PCharles said:

I'd wait... I'm surprised your starting SG was 1.055. That seems low. It should have been 1.085 or higher. Do the instructions not indicate what your starting SG should have been?

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yes it said it should be between 1.050 and 1.060, so I figured I was perfect at 1.055..... this is a mist wine.

Again, I'd wait. I was the same way with my first kit, wanting to move the process along faster. After you get some bottles in the rack you'll not be in such a hurry. Extended contact with the skins will give you a deeper richer flavor in the long run.

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I apologize for the confusion, as I am not using skins. I'm using a wine kit with no skins (this time). Also I apologize for making it seem like I'm in a hurry, as I'm sincerely not, it just that I don't want it to ruin by waiting too long after sg is already at 1.000...... the instructions say it should be .998 at around day 14 and to rack it then.