Do you like your own wine?

I buy the top of the line kits and let them age at least 2 years. I prefer them to the $10-$30 commercial wine. I must admit that I can't appreciate the $50+ wines I've had the pleasure of drinking (except for the 40 year old Taylor port).

Ours have been usually good, sometimes meh, but always better than what I could buy at the store for the same price it costs to make our own. As has been stated above, time is key. Our results have improved drastically with time and a few tweaks here and there.

ibglowin said:

I think you just need to be patient here. How old is your oldest bottle now? I have about 6 bottles left from my first big crush back in 2011 and with each bottle I open I am always amazed at the continuing transformation that occurs with more and more time in the bottle. I have some 2012's Cab blends that are just now going to the next level of crazy good. They were harsh for years. Those tannins have now finally softened and integrated nicely and the fruit is coming forward once again.

3P's of winemaking my friend!

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I suspect that there is some truth to this. First wine was 2013, few bottles remain, same with the 2014’s. I have around 5 cases of 2015 and perhaps 30 cases of 2016. The 2016’s will definitely get some age on them and yes, I’m somewhat disappointed with the Grenache, Syrah, Rhone blend. The fruit was fantastic that year too, I really feel it should be so much better than it is. I am hoping time does some magic on it. On the other hand, my low brix 2016 Cab Franc is really quite nice and proud to share it.

I like my wine alot better than store bought -

My wife can drink my wine without getting massive headaches and other known issues , when drinking commercial wines.

I keep her happy and I am happy also

Hay, Steve good to hear from you.

I like my wines. That said, I will taste commercial wines and find that they are bone dry, super tannic, and very oaky, and I have to work harder to get those characteristics in mine.

ibglowin said:

If all you drink is wine from one region then you begin rather quickly to train your palate to just the taste of wines from that one area. Lot of us make wines strictly from the Lodi area of California as they grow an abundance of grapes there and have plenty to send to all points East. If you don't drink wines from other regions now and then your palate will quickly lose the ability to discern differences in terroir. You begin to think this is not what a Cabernet should taste like.

The Dangers of Cellar Palate

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Thanks for sharing this. Very informative. I've been actively trying to expand my wine purchases. Went to a tasting today with a French winemaker Domaine Magellan. Having a pro talk you thru a tasting is worth its weight in gold for me.
I find I need to have almost 2 separate palates: one for the process of making and one for my finished products/commercial. The 'cellar palate' can give me tunnel vision, tho I need it to be comfortable knowing what to expect from young juice vs grape wines and making sure they are on the right path.
Evaluating a finished product is tough for me on the other hand. When I've walked away from it for a while and revisit in 6 months or so I get a true taste. For better or for worse. More better I'd say. Since a bottle is a living thing constantly changing and maturing.
The kits are tough for me too. I think I've got a subconscious bias against them. And even when I enjoy the wine I still can't shake the thought of it being good--for a kit wine. To me there's big taste differences between kits/grapes/juice pails during the making process. I actively try and eliminate it, But it can still cloud my final judgement unfortunately. Like Joeswine said, entering in contests is great way to really know for sure.

Ive been drinking homemade wine since i was probly 12 years old my dad would let me have a glass with dinner on sunday, i hadnt even tryed a commercial wine till i was 18 and my palate at that point couldnt tell the difference, i like my homemade wine, although i do still buy commercial wines as well, i like them both, i like wine

Stressbaby said:

@Norcal, @Boatboy24, @meadmaker1, are you by chance an INTJ?

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You didn't ask me, but I am an INTP. Screaming INTP.

Ajmassa5983 said:

Went to a tasting today with a French winemaker Domaine Magellan. Having a pro talk you thru a tasting is worth its weight in gold for me.

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Which raises the question: How much does the talk of a pro weigh?

sour_grapes said:

Which raises the question: How much does a pro's talk weigh?

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Lol. I'd really enjoy sharing a few glasses of wine with you one day. You crack me up. But just not your wine since not even the winemaker likes it.

joeswine said:

Hay, Steve good to hear from you.

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Hi Joe !

Been busy with family vacation at Glacier - then hand surgery AGAIN !
Was out of comission for several weeks -

But I still and try and post on occasion - hopefully more now

sour_grapes said:

You didn't ask me, but I am an INTP. Screaming INTP.

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Sorry, didn't mean to exclude you Paul. I'm INTJ so I know that type better, it looks like INTPs could be hard on their own wine as well.

Not much, but I've learned to listen and make my own determination,I've learnt the difference between kits,juice and grapes are in the base it self crushed juice,fresh juice or a kit high end or low the process is basically the same,the volume will and is different from winery to winery from cellar to cellar ,the end result will always be different.. don't try to over think the process or the results just enjoy the crafty and learn from each batch and above all have fun at doing it and as always say "think outside the box"

NorCal said:

I find that I don’t like my wine that much. They are drinkable and I could put them among $10-$20 commercial wines blind and they wouldn’t stand out good or bad, but I’m finding that I’m somewhat disappointed with my wines more often than not. I would put the 5 wines that have won silver medals at the CA state fair in this category.

Perhaps my expectations are too high? A personal problem? An incorrect assumption that my wine should be getting better with each vintage?

How about you, do you like your own wine?

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I feel similarly about my efforts to date. I’ve started and deleted several responses on this topic, as my evaluation of my grape wine is similar to yours, and have been working for some time to reconcile those thoughts with reality and empirical evidence.

First, reality. I considered the description of the WA rating system below, coupled with knowledge of grapes and winemaking. I normally buy and consume wines in the 90-95 & 96-100 categories, occasionally high 80’s. Truly exceptional, outstanding wines have no flaws in their production and can only be made from the very best fruit. I am not purchasing this fruit, are you? For example, Beckstoffer To Kalon Cab, Pesenti Petit Syrah, Hayne Zinfandel aren’t available to purchase, only grapes of superior quality produce these 90-100 wines. If you’re not growing or buying the best fruit, the odds of producing wine like this is slim. A well made wine, from medium to good quality fruit, probably produces a wine in the 75-85 range, to expect more, as you inferred, may be “high expectations”.

Now, empirical evidence. Go buy 3 wines that are the same varietal or blend as yours, buy a 75, 85, and something in the 90’s, same vintage as yours, get some reasonably experienced wine drinkers together and do a blind tasting. See where you stack up, I’m betting you’ll fare well in tasting. Based on my taste testing, I’m producing 80’s, and believe to be doing a good job with the raw materials I have access to.

I don’t compare my wines to the big boys I buy, nor do I expect them to compare, but I enjoy them nonetheless. You can’t expect to win a steak cooking competition when you are using USDA Choice, and your competition is using Wagyu beef.

Is any winery that’s buying fruit from the same place you are making truly exceptional wine? If there are some, then maybe you do have room to improve.

Seems to me that your wine is quite good, as it wins awards, your process is quite squared away, and well coupled with knowledge and experience.

96-100:
An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase, and consume.

90 - 95:
An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.

80 - 89:
A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.

70 - 79:
An average wine with little distinction except that it is a soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.

60 - 69:
A below average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor, or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.

50 - 59:
A wine deemed to be unacceptable.

Yes, I like my own wine.

But it took years.

And, as already said by others, fruit quality is the key. And I grow my own grapes. So it really took me years to first learn how to grow high quality fruit. And during that time my cellar time was spent learning the "art" of wine making. Kits, buying fruit, using this tool and that measuring device are all well and good, but relying on those alone to make a great wine is like expecting painting by numbers to create a masterpiece.

Rather, I see wine making as both a modern science and an ancient art.

The science part one can buy from Amazon. The art part one needs to spend labor, and years, to acquire. Hopefully, it is a labor of love.

I've been pleased with my wine to be honest.

I wasn't at first with the reds but again age is the key factor and once I learned that lesson I've been very pleased with my wines.

Being as new as I am I probably have no business posting here. I've only bottled one batch of a cheap 10l malbec kit. My only expectation at this point is I want it not to suck. One thing that was not mentioned and I think overlooked is the difference between commercial and artisan wines. The large commercial wineries that make tens of thousands of cases a year don't necessarily grow or get their grapes from the same source. Although quality is not completely overlooked, their main emphisis is on quantity and production and the necessity to produce a wine similar to the previous years, there are exceptions of course. Getting to cellar palate, my interest in wine started with local Virginia wines and they are what I have grown to enjoy. I consider these Artisan Wines and I think is more inline with what we should make. I've been fortunate enough to get to know two different Winemakers both of which have different approaches to making wine. One of them makes wine for 5 different wineries and even the same varietal is different depending on which winery he is making it for. He'll innoculate the same grapes using 2 or more different yeasts for a better flavor or nose profile for the different wineries. Although science is a large part of it he for the most part uses his sense of taste and smell in choosing the proper wines to blend. He even uses the wines from the different wineries to blend if he feels it will make a better wine. Although I have yet to blend, I think, especially with wine kits we are limiting our ability to produce a better wine. Additionally with kits and the general consencise MLF should or cannot be done is making the harsher Malic Acids to be dominant over the softer Lactic and why most people say white kits are better then reds. Again, these are just observations with no experience to back it up. I may fall into the category of having low expections but I don't feel any of my 10 young wines are that bad.

NorCal said:

Perhaps my expectations are too high? A personal problem? An incorrect assumption that my wine should be getting better with each vintage?

How about you, do you like your own wine?

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First not sure if expectation should be each vintage will get better. If each vintage has been made with superior product to the previous then yes. Your skills are most likely getting better with each vintage, which should diminish swings. Even the best vineyards/wineries have dips and valleys in their wines. My point of view is some vintages will be better than others and most will get better with age, what can I do to guide each vintage to it's best potential(still a long way from this myself).

I like my wine and I don't. I've only been making wine 4 years now, started with frozen concentrates. The first thing that impressed me was that I could make a drinkable wine from many sources. Drinkable that is, not necessarily good, but drinkable. None of my wines have aged much of course. many don't last long enough to age.

Now and prior to my my wine making days, I have tried everything commercially from 2 buck chuck to nice Bordeaux's, Barolo's, etc, and from every country(most) and grape variety. Too cheap to buy anything over a $100 per bottle, so I have no gauge for high end. Box wines, yellowtail, Barefoot and other low end wines, I find undrinkable compared to wines above $15 - 20 and don't buy them.

Concentrate/cheap kits: Drinkable, but don't like.

High end kits(Eclipse): Very drinkable, like more as they age.

Fruit wines: Drinkable, some I have liked others I have not.

Juice buckets: Drinkable, most have been good and I like.

All grape: More drinkable than all the above at every stage. Like very much. Stands up to commercial wines I like.

I had a Petite Syrah that hit two years old in Sept and it was quite good. Last years Zin is very good at 1 year. This years Zin/Cab/PS blend is good out of the gate(Hope I can demonstrate the strength to let this age).

So yes I like my wine and I don't, it depends on what it is and the source.

@mainshipfred - I agree with you about kit wines, they do make nice, drinkable wines, some better than others. My expectations were similar to yours in my early days, and was amazed that with little sophistication, knowledge, or effort, I could make a good looking wine at home that would be enjoyable and not kill me. A great product for sure!!!

As for the “big” wineries, the Yellowtails and Mondavi’s of the wine world, their product is a conscious choice of market, and they produce the way that they do intentionally, with volume and consistency in mind. Despite the mega production, Mondavi knows how to produce a stud wine, see their 2014 offering below, from the To Kalon Vineyard, coincidence???.......I think not. You pay through the nose for those grapes, the price reflects it!! It’s definitely not their only exceptional effort, but it serves a different market, and they’re not alone.

There are teeny tiny wineries navigating the grape buying market and buying exceptional grapes and making exceptional wine, there’s one common thread, exceptional fruit. Look at the second shot, one of two pages of the wines made from To Kalon & Beckstoffer To Kalon in 2014, pretty impressive, the worst is a 92. I don’t mean to be riding To Kalon or California, there are many other producers of superior fruit in other places, WA, OR, France, Italy, the list goes on.

In the end, great wines come from great fruit, regardless of where it’s grown. Regardless of scores, ratings, and critical reviews, we all get to like what we want to and enjoy it regardless of what anyone else thinks, so drink up, it’s Sunday!