Sourdough Starters

BernardSmith said:

Yeah... but I doubt that your bread will ever really develop a true SF sourdough flavor. Terroir is really critical - I am not being ironic. The particular variety of bacteria and yeast that makes up SF sourdough does not exist anywhere except in SF and by all accounts, even if you were to capture a critical mass of the leavening agents there and bring them home, the flour, the water, the food you feed the sourdough, all will slowly , slowly transform the character of the starter into one that more resembles other more local starters. That is the nature of the beast..

Click to expand...

JohnT said:

So, Did you follow the recipe to the letter (as far as ingredients)?
Did you do a 6 cup batch of dough?

What kind of yeast did you use for your starter?
Did you let the dough rise overnight? In the Fridge or on the counter?

A detailed step by step on exactly how you got to SF SD Bread would be much appreciated!

Click to expand...

montanaWineGuy said:

I can't help in answering your q, but I will add. I'm using my starter once a week and leave it in the fridge between uses. The one time I didn't get to it, I had to toss a cups worth and it was good to go in a couple of days.

I did read, but didn't believe it, but the starter does need to sit out the night before use. Big air pockets form in the bread when this is done. Lots of little things make a difference. I've been slowly experimenting and finding what works best for me, and my best expectations have been exceeded.

Click to expand...

BernardSmith said:

OK... but "sitting out" may simply mean that the internal temperature of the starter rises to ambient room temp and that may simply make the yeast more active (and the bacteria)... (they would be sluggish (at best) at low temperatures which is why they do better at about 70F

Click to expand...

BernardSmith said:

I don't want to hijack this thread but something has been niggling me for the last few weeks. I make sourdough (although I am terrible at husbanding the starter and have to restart the starter very often - but that , as they say , is another story), and here's my question:
Wild yeasts are used to eat the sugars in the flour... but brewers need to convert the carbohydrates in the grain to fermentable sugars BEFORE any yeast can ferment the sugars. How is it that in bread making (sourdough or regular) the yeast has no problem dealing with the flour without any help from the baker but the brewer needs to initiate enzymatic reactions (mashing) to open up the crushed grain for the yeast?

Click to expand...

ceeaton said:

For breads to rise you only need the yeast to convert some of the carbohydrates in flour to CO2/flavors to help the bread rise. It is not a complete degradation of the starches into other chemicals, ie. starch is left in the finished product in significant quantity. As long as some glutens (protein in nature) are formed during kneeding, a structure will be produced that can capture some of the CO2 to help aid in the bread rising.

In beer fermentation you need to convert the starches into a form that can be ALMOST completely digested into alcohol/flavor (yeast by products)/CO2 by the yeast. Too many left over starches and proteins will leave a haze (ex. wheat beers). Some higher sugars (dextrins) are not broken down (at least in ales) during fermentation and augment the body of the finished product. Brewer's yeast can attack some starches, but it isn't a direct food source, unless no other "preferred" sources are available.

This is an incredibly simplistic broad view, but it would take several thousand pages to completely illustrate what goes on. Kudos to the biochemists in our midst.

Click to expand...

BernardSmith said:

Aha! And that might explain why you need to constantly feed the starter when making sourdough - the available sugars in the flour are very limited ... Thanks Craig... That was really very helpful.

Click to expand...