Changing the "Kit wine"Taste??

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In 2 Wine

Junior
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I'm on my third WE kit and the first two have a very distinct wine kit taste and aroma. The first kit a Vintners Reserve Cab has been bulk aged for 11 months and the "kit taste" I detected early on is still very much there. I thought buying the less expensive kit was the problem but then realized a year later the same "kit smell and taste" are present in my Selection Estate Old Vine Zin. I tasted the Zin after secondary fermentation and was really impressed how good it tasted. After adding the clarifying pack I tasted it again and picked up on the kit wine taste. Can the clarifying agents impact the flavor and smell like I suspect?

Is there some sort of additive that can bring down the sweetness and impart some tartness?

If any one can chime in with a little advice about how i might change
the overly sweet aroma and Kit wine taste in my wine I would really
appreciate the advice.
 
From what the folks that are affected by KT say, your wine should be losing it soon. Generally a year of aging will greatly diminish it and eventually it will go away. It doesn't help with your current kits, but a lot of us have gone to the Mosti kits, since they don't seem to have this KT to them. Aging is still a good thing, but for some reason the WE kits seem to display more of the KT than the Mosti kits do. I have done some of the Mosti now and they are very good from the beginning and continue to improve as they age.


Welcome to the forum!
 
After poking around a bit i did pick up on the fact the MM kits tend to have less complaints about the kit taste. I'm curious to try the MM kits, I'm into fuller bodied reds would you have a recommendation for my next purchase?
 
That would depend on your budget for the kits. The Likited Series of Meglioli are all great if you can afford them. The All Juice Master's Edition has a lot of very good full bodied reds. The all juice pails are full kits using 23 liters of juice and make an excellent wine. Just choose the price range you can afford and get the style of wine you like and you should be very satisfied. Remeber you can alsways call George if you need personal advise. He has made quite a few of the Mosti kits.
 
Thanks Appleman,

You confirmed my thoughts, the masters edition is what I am thinking about next. Like most things you get what you pay for I guess. Whats a few extra bucks to have a nice bottle after a year or more of waiting

As for my current kits I'll just be patient and give them a try in a few months.

Thanks for the warm welcome and advice.
 
Welcome In 2 Wine and I have to agree the MM's are the way to go. I have not heard any bad comments on them although they are a little pricey but when you divide that difference between 30 bottles its not much of a difference except for the fact that those 30 bottles are much better. Glad to have you aboard and hope you stay are share your experiences and dont be afraid to ask any questions.
 
I'm sure I'll have a lot more to ask as I begin to learn this art. I really hope that time will indeed be the best ingredient for the kits I already have underway.

The In laws asked what I would like for a Christmas gift and now I know it's a Mosti kit.

Thanks for the recommendation Wade.
 
I have been finding it has been taking over a year for the KT to leave my wines but it has been leaving. I noticed that winesI bulk age as opposed to aging in the bottle seem to loose the KT faster.That said, I too have started to try the MM kits and have 2 going now.
 
Amazing timing! I was about to post the exact same question as In 2 Wine. My first two were a VR Shiraz and Selection International Cab. The Shiraz still has that taste after 12 months in the bottle, but I chalked it up to being a 7L kit. The Cab (15L) tasted great at bottling after 3 months in the carboy, but has developed that taste after 3 months in the bottle. I thought KT was supposed to be subtle, but both of mine are quite noticeable (and I'm no connoisseur!) So going back to In 2 Wine's original post, is there anything other than just waiting that can be done to reduce the KT at this point?


BTW, my third kit was the MM All Juice Shirazso I could compare. It'sstill aging in the carboy working on its third month. Can't say yet if it has the same taste, but I'll know in a few weeks when I bottle.
 
There really isn't anything you can do about it if you are one of the unfortunate ones among us that are really sensitive to the taste. Time really does help. I had a White Zinfandel that really had KT bad. I had botled it for summer use. It was just too much for me(KT) last spring after aging already a few months so I left them in the box and forgot about them. I found them again this last weekend so figured I would try one. All traces of KT had dissapeared, and this one had it BAD.


I would be very surprised if the MM All Juice was anything but great right from bottling. Let us know if it has any of the same taste or not.
 
I'm bottling the MM between Christmas and New Years. I'll let ya'all know how it tastes then.Thanks!


For my next trick, I was thinking of the MM Masters Outback Shiraz Mondiale with Raisins because I'm curious how much better the raisins make it. Anyone tried this one? I passed on the amarone because a) I've read that it's somewhat bitter and b) think I'll stick to wines I know until I get some more experience.
 
I made this one and it is just about 6 months in the bottle so I will open one this week and report on it's progress.
 
Can someone explain KT? I'm not familiar with the abbreviation. Thanks.
 
KT is an abbreviation for Kit taste. Some have compared the smell and taste to Jolly Rancher candy's. From what I can tell it seems to be more apparent to some folks more than others. I am certainly not a wine expert by any stretch of the imagination and it is completely apparent to me when it's present. It's an overly sweet smell and taste that masks the true structure of the wine.

I'm sure others may have their own interpretation that might be more descriptive.
 
Curious. My Home Winemaking book suggests that some people can detect potassium sorbate when added as a stabilizer. “It has a distinct flavor which some people dislike. Potassium sorbate will generate a geranium-like odor disagreeable to most people if it is present during malolactic fermentation.” I have no experience with this as I'm new to home wine making. However, both the WE Viognier kit and the MM Sangiovese kit I have fermenting now came with potassium sorbate. I’m concerned about using it.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />
 
As long as you follow the directions you will be OK. The kit has potassium metabisufite (K-meta) along with the K-Sorbate. That's why they tell you to add the K-Meta before the K-Sorbate. It will prevent the MLF(malolactic fermentation) from occuring, hence the sorbate will not generate the geranium odors. No need to concerned.
 
Some info why K-sorbate is included in your dry wine kit and if it contributes to the KT.



<DIV ="postcolor">"This info is a quote from Tim Vandergrift Technical Services Manager, Winexpert Ltd.
<DIV ="postcolor">
<DIV ="postcolor">
<DIV ="postcolor">"Okay, having identified that you simply have a general sense of 'what's it there for', I'll let you in on the real truth behind sorbate.

We include it in the kit to prevent the growth of certain classes of bacteria and moulds. It also suppresses many different indigenous yeast strains. As a manufacturer, we're faced with the reality that many of the people who use our kits, especially for the first time, may not understand the importance of stringent sanitation protocols. We have twenty to forty cases a week where people fail to add yeast, so in order to obviate product failures due to the introduction of spoilage organisms in the user's hands, we specify the use of sorbate, and include it in the kit.

Sorbate is harmless, odourless, tasteless, and indetectable in the amounts we include in the kit. No one has the capacity to detect a couple of grams of sorbate dissolved in 23 litres of wine, and it has no effect on human health (well, almost none: it's used in treating certain types of gatritis caused by foreign bacteria in the gut).

This is from a monograph from one of our suppliers:


<DIV ="quotetop">QUOTE
<DIV ="quotemain">Potassium sorbate can restrain effectively the activity of mould, yeast and aerophile bacteria. Restrain growth and reproduction of the pernicious micro oraganism as pseudomonas, staphylococcus salmonella action to restrain growth is more powerful than killing. Meanwhile, it can not restrain useful microoraganim growth as Anaerobic spore-bearing bacilli, acidophil therefore to lengthen food store period and remain food original flavor. The preservative efficiency of sorbic acid (potassium sorbate) is 5-10 times sodium benzoate.

When dissolved in water, potassium sorbate ionizes to form sorbic acid which is effective against yeasts, molds, and select bacteria, and is widely used at 250 ppm to 1000 ppm levels in cheeses, dips, yogurt, sour cream, bread, cakes, pies and fillings, baking mixes, doughs, icings, fudges, toppings, beverages, margarine, salads, fermented and acidified vegetables, olives, fruit products, dressings, smoked and salted fish, confections and mayonnaise.

Sorbic Acid (also called chemically 2,4-Hexadienoic acid ), a white crystalline powder or granule form for dust free, is an unsaturated fatty acid which has two double bonds in conjugation that is, two double bonds separated only by one single bond. It and its salts (potassium sorbate, calcium sorbate ; its salts are used according to differences in solubility.) are used as preservatives in wide range of food products as well as in their packaging materials, since they are characterized by their broad effectiveness to inhibit molds, yeast, and many bacteria growth in food. Potassium sorbate, white to slightly yellow crystalline powder, is the potassium salt of sorbic acid and is much more soluble in water than the acid. Potassium sorbate will releases back sorbic acid if dissolved in water. It is effective up to pH 6.5 but effectiveness increases as the pH decreases. The lower the pH value of the product the lower amount of Sorbic Acid or Potassium Sorbate is needed for preservation. Its industrial applications include use in coating industry to improve gloss and in rubber industry.

Potassium sorbate is used as a a mold, bacterial and yeast inhibitor and as a fungistatic agent in foods. It is also used in cosmetics, pharmaceutical, tobacco and flavoring products. In wines, it is to prevent the secondary fermentation of residual sugar. It is used in coating to improve gloss. It is used as an intermediate to manufacture plasticizers and lubricants.. It is used as an additive in rubber industry to improve milling characteristics.

Chemical Formula: CH3CH:CHCH:CHCOOK
<DIV ="postcolor">

So, bottom line: yes, you can leave it out.

But again, why? I leave it out because I can use sanitation methods that civilians cannot access, and have a lab that I can do cultures in, and I can never remember to go get some when I bottle, one or three years after starting the kit. I'm not sure how leaving the product out would benefit you, but if you choose to do so, be sure to monitor the quality of the wine over time, to make sure it's still microbiologically stable."
 
From what Ive read and this is just speculation and rumor, The kit taste which is primarily a W.E. thing comes from the way they process their juice.
 

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