critique/inputs for blackberry wine

topping up after racking?

TE=TommBomb;423304]Hey turok, forgive me I don't understand. What do u use to top up the primary fermentor if not water?[/QUOTE]

Obviously, I cannot speak for Turock but one of the things I do is to make slightly more than say the three or five gallons I want and so I have some additional wine which I store in the fridge from which I can top up the carboy after I have racked. Other people talk of adding similar wines to replace the lost volume and others use glass marbles. Another way would be to use smaller carboys (so rack from five to a three gallon plus additional sized bottles and carboys). and I don't know how wise this is but I have seen many photos of carboys that have not been topped up because presumably the wine maker is relying on the constant production of CO2 to act as a protective blanket.

Yah, i tend to topp off with a similar wine... but, using marbles would not be bad..

this has been great so far. I'm getting totally impatient to get this started but will wait
(I'm going away for 10 days later this week and won't leave anything in primarys unattended.)SBWs, you mentioned using egg whites as a clearing agent , I seem to recall seeing this before but not really knowing anything about it. Is this common?how much would you use per gallon?Has anyone else here used egg whites?
Tomorrow I'm off to pick up some more blackberries a PH meter tester,and some calcium carbonate (in case it's needed)
Thanks again everyone

Blackberry clears pretty well on its own--but when you use high poundage, the wine can be pretty dense. The best way to handle it is to add bentonite to the primary. It does a fabulous job of clearing so that you won't have any clarity issues in the post ferment. I have a lot of experience using the bentonite. It really polishes the wine and we've never had a need to use other clarifiers. Just be sure to add your pectic enzyme to the must on the first day along with some meta. Second day, set brix and PH and pitch yeast and part of the nutrient. Add the bentonite on the about the third day of the ferment. Bentonite can inactivate enzymes--so this is why it's added later,after the enzyme treatment is complete.

Oh, I'm SURE you'll need the calcium carbonate--it would be very unusual not to need it for blackberries.

Vernsgal---if you make the blackberry with water as you described, you might not need the bentonite. It should clear quite well on its own within 9 months or so.

I use DEB EL Just Whites 100% dried egg whites 1 tsp which is equal to 1/2 egg white for 3 gallon batches. Here is a link that explains different agents and what they are used for. I use egg whites more to help with any harshness from high tannins than to clear. This is something you won't know until your wine has aged for awhile.

SBWs said:

I use DEB EL Just Whites 100% dried egg whites 1 tsp which is equal to 1/2 egg white for 3 gallon batches. Here is a link that explains different agents and what they are used for. I use egg whites more to help with any harshness from high tannins than to clear. This is something you won't know until your wine has aged for awhile.

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Wow some of those I have never heard of ,and using blood? I think thats one I'll pass on lol (maybe someone can use it in DB and give it a new name,lol)
The egg whites for mellowing high tannins is good to know. I have to admit I did some cut and pastes from the site to add to my notes. I think on this blackberry one ,depending on if I add water or not, I'll stick with the Bentonite for clearing. Now that's not written in stone or anything but it is one I know

Agree, don't think I will ever try the blood, but I have used milk and it did wonders restoring the color and flavor on a white grape peach that I left the airlock go dry and it oxidized some before I caught it.

I use bentonite myself on just about every fruit wine I make. If you ever get a chance to read some of my blog on Country Fruit Wines you will see a lot of my recipes call for bentonite up front in the primary. I do use steamed juice most of the time so what I make is a lot like kits. Figured I'd do like the people who make kits and it work out well so I've kept on doing it.

If you haven't used bentonire in the past, just be aware to use the recommended amount ONLY. The directions are on the packet.

Turock said:

If you haven't used bentonire in the past, just be aware to use the recommended amount ONLY. The directions are on the packet.

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ok this is going to be fun,I'm not even out of the gate and I'm lost already.I thought I was at least choosing an option for clearing that I was familiar with(having used bentonite in all the kit wines I have made in the past).My problem is I don't have packets I have 2 2lb bags.The 1st is from spagnols and only gives directions for using in kit, the 2nd is from Global Vintners and gives no instructions. Did a search and found numerous ways of adding,from making slurries to adding x amount to water.Even the tutorial here doesn't give quantity per gal.

1/2 to 1 Teaspoon per gallon is the usual range. The specific measurements are calculated according to the PH of the wine. Dilute the bentonite in 5 ounces of water. Without knowing anything about blackberry I'd say shoot on the low side, add 1/2 a teaspoon. You can add fining agents in the secondary if the bentonite isn't enough. I'm sure there are others who have way more experience with fining agents who can give you some more specific advice.

If you want to melt your brain, here's a more advanced article on it: http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/FS/FS-53-W.pdf

My favorite clearing agent is superklear, in my honest opinion that stuff works absolute miracles! I have never used bentonite in the primary though, so I can not speak for its effectiveness.

Vernsgal--let me see if I can make sense of this for you. If you make this according to your original plan by using water, then you should not need bentonite or clearing agents.

If you go all fruit and no water, you might want to use bentonite. Not saying you HAVE to tho. If you don't use it, the wine will be very dense but blackberry made with no water is very dark, anyway, so you may not even care about not seeing thru it.

The instructions on bentonite is 2 tbs. to 1/2 cup of warm water. Be aware that this is for 5 gallons. Reduce if making less than 5 gallons. Let it sit overnite, then add to the wine on about the 3rd day of the ferment.

Seth8530-thanks, I have used that with kit wines before ( except they just call it kieselol & chitosan) but they also always had you use bentonite in the primary so it's good to know you can use it alone .
Turok-thanks again,instruction are noted. I also was doing more online reading (like I don't do enough)and found a posting,from this site, from you saying that vanilla beans are good at the end. I think I just might add one to mine.
So impatient to get this thing going

Yep yep, I am not saying it will take care of every clarity issue.. Such as pectin haze (use pectic enzyme) but its my go to agent.

Bentonite, when added to the primary, is meant for more than just its natural fining ability that comes into play later down the road. Bentonite up front helps create a better environment for the yeast and it also binds particles so you usually do not have an intense, volcanic, gotta clean the ceiling type of ferment. Plus you have typically dealt with the issue of heat stabilization. All by adding bentonite at the beginning. I do use my drill powered wine whip to make the slurry, or a blender. As far as how much bentonite to use, always refer to mfg recommendation. The density may vary from brand to brand, so instructions can vary. And I know Scott Labs has a bentonite/casein product, so not all are just bentonite.

Also (james in galveston take note) you always add pectic enzyme to a fruit must, regardless if juice, concentrate or actual fruit. Pectin naturally exists in most fruits, and it crosses over to juice & while the must may clear you may develop a pectin haze later & it is harder to clear a pectin haze after the ferment has finished than if you treat for it up front. Any unused pectic enzyme just drops out in the lees.

Even without bentonite, as long as you treated with pectic enzyme you should end up with a naturally clear blackberry wine. It will need to age, and should need to be cold stabilized if you added chalk to adjust pH/TA (at least I always CS with chalk use), and the CS will help facilitate clearing too. I do not use fining agents, just the preferment bentonite--though I would not hesitate to use fining agents should the need arise, but time has always taken care of things.

I will say the description WinemakerMag gives for bentonite does a great job. A nice overview of how bentonite does its job, along with other fining agents... http://www.winemakermag.com/stories...n/26-a-clearer-understanding-of-fining-agents

The online magazine has a search engine, so if you are seeking to learn more about some winemaking topic odds are they published some answers. One of my first go-to places.

Like turock, I agree it is much easier to address pH/TA on the front end, just like addressing pectin....and a 100% blackberry wine when done right is amazing. If you can source black raspberries, a 1/2 to 1 lb per gallon, add them with your blackberries-- they add a little something something. Even 4-6 oz of blk raspberry jam in primary, per gallon, before you start adjusting SG, will work. Or www.homewinery.com offers a pint of 100% fruit concentrate, you could mix it up and have one gallon of juice to use in your batch, they carry larger sizes too--good stuff!

Thanks Saramc, I learned a little bit about the uses of bentonite from your post. My only question is what exactly does bentonite have to do with heat stabilization?

Nice article sarah! (Yours and winemaker magazine's LOL)

This has been a really good thread. My first attempt at blackberry wine turned out halfway decent but got bad pretty quickly. I followed a recipe and added way too much tannin and acid, used the wrong size corks, over aerated it, didn't age it long enough. the last bottle i had was like vinegar.
so after reading lots of posts on this forum i started a batch last week only5 lbs per galon, but it will turn out ok. I did adjust the ph with calcium, didn't add any acid of course, shot for 12% alcohol, added nutirent, only fermented the berries for three days to help remove any bitterness and put it under airlock at SG 1030 to avoid any oxygen. When it's done fermenting I'll rack it into a CO2 sparged carboy with the Vacuumman pump and let it age for a year before i adjust the sweetness and then age it another year before i try it. Last week i met a guy who has been making great wine for over 25 years, he shared a bottle of 14 year old wine that was fantastic, that's the quality i'm shooting for some day. I'm only 59 so i have plenty of time to learn yet.

wood--sounds like you're getting your feet under you on the blackberry. Blackberry is a tough wine to make for many beginners because they don't understand NOT using acid blend and needing to use the calcium carbonate. Many new winemakers don't own a PH meter--pretty vital for blackberry--and all fruit wines. And on these malic fruits, don't forget the 71B culture. It makes blackberry much smoother because it tames the harsh malic.

Sara always gives complete instructions---she's a lover of science and has a very organized mind. She's an asset--no matter what forum you find her on. All new winemakers should rsearch the benefits of bentonite--lots of good info from many white paper sources. Once you start using bentonite, you'll be amazed how you almost never have to fuss with wines that you're trying to bottle.

Thanks Sara that site is great.It was funny you mentioned it when you did because yesterday I was at one of my wine suppliers and they threw the magazine in as a bonus.It has great Q&A's.
I think more than anything,this week, I have learned much on bentonite.There really is so much knowlege on this site for wine making.Hopefully,over time, I will absorb a portion of it.
Now I'm gone for a week and when I return I'll get this 40lb's of berries going.My PH meter I ordered should be here by then,carbonate on hand,so hopefully I'll be good to go.oh and I have 71B yeast and pectic enzyme also.