Other Extended Maceration Eclipse Lodi 11 Cab

Came home to stir the skins up a bit, 1.032 @ 79.5*F (room ambient temp about 71*F), it's moving along pretty darn fast! I don't remember RC 212 being quite this vigorous before. Glad I put in my second half of Fermaid O this morning. SG getting a bit low to add much now.

One side note on the Speidel 30L fermenter, the airlock doesn't blurp (normally I can hear it if I'm awake late at night in bed). If you listen closely you can hear part of the airlock touch the other as gas is released and the moveable part moves down. I actually have some Star San in the airlock and it hasn't all bubbled away as it would with a one piece unit.

How much you said you paid for that new toy Craig?

Hi all,

Tonight we had one our bottles of the batch that started this thread. It’s 21 months old now. It is very good. Nice nose, good mouthfeel, medium plus body, and a fine taste. 21 months is about the time that I find Lodi Cab kits making a significant stride forward. I think this kit is still ahead of a non EM version, though the difference may be less now than it was earlier. But then again it’s so hard to say doing a comparison by memory. This is definitely an excellent wine and a fine way to make ‘early drinkers’ that are well ahead of non-EM kits to this point. I can’t wait to try another bottle in six months or so.

geek said:

How much you said you paid for that new toy Craig?

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https://morewinemaking.com/products/speidel-plastic-fermenter-30l-79-gal.html

So far seems worth the cost and this is it's maiden voyage.

My WE Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet has been in primary for 17 days now as I'm trying a bit of EM. I added a dose of sulfite on day 13 and have been more or less gently shaking the bucket twice a day to keep the skins wet.

I opened it up today for the first time since the adding the sulfite to check on everything and get an SG. The SG was .990 and the skins had almost all dropped. Of course I took a taste and it wasn't bad. There was a bit of sulfite early on and just a hint of fizziness, but really small amount. The color looked great, the nose was good, especially after it opened in the glass, and it actually tasted like a cab. Clearly it still has a long way to go, but already feeling much better about this effort than my Fontana Merlot. The Merlot, as I stated on another thread, is thin and has very little tannic bite. Still trying to decide how to fix that one. (oak spirals or tannin powder)

I'm heading to Boston for about 4 days and when I return, I plan to pull the Cabernet out of the primary and remove the skins, then re-rack to a 6 gallon carboy and add some additional oak. Then at some point, I'll rack it into a barrel that JohnD has so graciously offered me. I'll take my sweet time with this one as it appears it's going to be a pretty decent wine.

So glad I JohnD has helped me out and glad he pointed me to this forum so I can ask a bunch of questions and learn from so many experienced winemakers!

Scott Harbison said:

My WE Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet has been in primary for 17 days now as I'm trying a bit of EM. I added a dose of sulfite on day 13 and have been more or less gently shaking the bucket twice a day to keep the skins wet.

I opened it up today for the first time since the adding the sulfite to check on everything and get an SG. The SG was .990 and the skins had almost all dropped. Of course I took a taste and it wasn't bad. There was a bit of sulfite early on and just a hint of fizziness, but really small amount. The color looked great, the nose was good, especially after it opened in the glass, and it actually tasted like a cab. Clearly it still has a long way to go, but already feeling much better about this effort than my Fontana Merlot. The Merlot, as I stated on another thread, is thin and has very little tannic bite. Still trying to decide how to fix that one. (oak spirals or tannin powder)

I'm heading to Boston for about 4 days and when I return, I plan to pull the Cabernet out of the primary and remove the skins, then re-rack to a 6 gallon carboy and add some additional oak. Then at some point, I'll rack it into a barrel that JohnD has so graciously offered me. I'll take my sweet time with this one as it appears it's going to be a pretty decent wine.

So glad I JohnD has helped me out and glad he pointed me to this forum so I can ask a bunch of questions and learn from so many experienced winemakers!

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Sounds like good progress. Just food for thought, when you return and are ready to move on from EM, rack to glass and press your skins (got a little tabletop fruit press you can borrow, perfect for pressing grape packs), and degas with the pump. Let it sit, don’t use any clearing agents, and rack again in a month. Leave it alone again for a while, like 3 months from your first sulfite addition, then rack into the barrel with sulfite addition and some oak adjuncts for a 6 month journey. That should get you into the barrel between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and back out around May, bottled by June. You’ll need another victim for the barrel in May.

Johnd said:

Sounds like good progress. Just food for thought, when you return and are ready to move on from EM, rack to glass and press your skins (got a little tabletop fruit press you can borrow, perfect for pressing grape packs), and degas with the pump. Let it sit, don’t use any clearing agents, and rack again in a month. Leave it alone again for a while, like 3 months from your first sulfite addition, then rack into the barrel with sulfite addition and some oak adjuncts for a 6 month journey. That should get you into the barrel between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and back out around May, bottled by June. You’ll need another victim for the barrel in May.

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I like those suggestions John. I was planning on catching those skins in the muslin bag and just hand squeezing them for more extraction, but I'd like to try the fruit press for experience.

Scott Harbison said:

I like those suggestions John. I was planning on catching those skins in the muslin bag and just hand squeezing them for more extraction, but I'd like to try the fruit press for experience.

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You got it. Back from St. Lucia tonight at midnight, off to Mississippi for some meetings, should be back Saturday aft, home Sunday.

Ok, I pulled the Cab off the skins tonight and racked over to the big mouth bubbler. I pressed the skins with JohnD's fruit press and got a bit more juice. I want to let it sit in the bubbler for 24/48 hours and rack in into glass. I don't like the head space I have in the bubbler. Plus,I need the wine in glass to degas it with the pump JohnD let me borrow (there's a theme here). I'll add more oak, but I'll take your suggestion @Johnd and not add clearing agents yet. Here are a few pictures>

Another update and question for the group. I racked to glass, added oak cubes and degassed the Lodi Cab tonight. Once again, JohnD's little vacuum pump worked like a charm, although it did take me a bit longer to degas this one than the Merlot. I kept the pump in and adjusted the vacuum for about 7-8 minutes and it cleared the gas very easily. The Merlot took about 5 minutes.I'm still concerned about the headspace I have left. Take a look at the pictures and tell me if you think I need to top it off or not. I'm leaning to topping it off, but I don't have a Cabernet in my wine cooler that I want to open at the moment. I can certainly go buy one tomorrow to use and drink. What do you think? Thanks!

ceeaton said:

https://morewinemaking.com/products/speidel-plastic-fermenter-30l-79-gal.html

So far seems worth the cost and this is it's maiden voyage.

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Thats what i use for fermentation, i have 5 and use for beer and wine. Always bubbles for me, really tight seal.

Scott Harbison said:

Another update and question for the group. I racked to glass, added oak cubes and degassed the Lodi Cab tonight. Once again, JohnD's little vacuum pump worked like a charm, although it did take me a bit longer to degas this one than the Merlot. I kept the pump in and adjusted the vacuum for about 7-8 minutes and it cleared the gas very easily. The Merlot took about 5 minutes.I'm still concerned about the headspace I have left. Take a look at the pictures and tell me if you think I need to top it off or not. I'm leaning to topping it off, but I don't have a Cabernet in my wine cooler that I want to open at the moment. I can certainly go buy one tomorrow to use and drink. What do you think? Thanks!

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Scott, you should get it topped up as soon as it's convenient, the headspace you have is more than desirable and if you could get the wine level up to 1/2" or 3/4" below the bottom of the airlock tube, you'll be in good shape for some aging. Put the wine someplace you won't need to move it and let it clear. In the next several weeks, you should get an accumulation of lees on the bottom of the carboy, when it's time to rack off of them, you can come pick up the barrel. The barrel is full of sulfite / citric water, and it will be ready to be emptied, rinsed, and filled up with your Lodi Cab and some oak adjuncts for a 6 month sit.

Johnd said:

Scott, you should get it topped up as soon as it's convenient, the headspace you have is more than desirable and if you could get the wine level up to 1/2" or 3/4" below the bottom of the airlock tube, you'll be in good shape for some aging. Put the wine someplace you won't need to move it and let it clear. In the next several weeks, you should get an accumulation of lees on the bottom of the carboy, when it's time to rack off of them, you can come pick up the barrel. The barrel is full of sulfite / citric water, and it will be ready to be emptied, rinsed, and filled up with your Lodi Cab and some oak adjuncts for a 6 month sit.

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Thanks JohnD! I'll be out working today, but will have time to grab a bottle of Lodi Cab from Acquistpace or Dorignac's. I'll top it off and then she'll sit for at least another 5-6 weeks, then rack again. I'm sure I'll be reaching out to you for advise.

After reading up on EM and studying this thread, I have decided to make my 7th kit of wine the WE Eclipse Lodi Cab, more or less per the methods utilized here. I have taken the liberty to combine what Ted and others have done with the kit instructions to make an idiots guide to making this kit with EM, because I need things spelled out for me. Hopefully this is helpful to other novices like myself who wish to start experimenting.

If anyone desires to actually read through these instructions, I welcome any feedback. I am sure that I have misunderstandings and errors in there...as well as several questions.

Lodi Cab Custom Instructions


Step 1: Day 1


Clean and sanitize equipment


Place 1 gallon hot water into sanitized container and mix bentonite until fairly well dissolved. Allow to cool a bit. Poor into 6.5 gallon big mouth bubbler (BMB).


Poor contents of juice bag into BMB, rinse bag with spring water and poor remains into BMB.


Fill BMB to the 5.5 gallon mark.


Soak skin bag in warm water.


Sanitize muslin bag, then rinse with same water you will be adding to wine.


Cut bottom of grape skin bag and add skins to muslin bag. Tie bag


Rinse skin bag with 1 cup spring water and poor into BMB.


Tie muslin bag with a single knot and then place into BMB.


Add 60 g French Oak chips and stir.


Add FT rouge per instructions if desired. ***Ted, you had mentioned that you felt the tannins were too strong at one point. Would leaving out the pre-fermentation tannins be a good idea here? I was planning on using post-fermentation tannins and don’t want to overdo it. ***


Add ½ to 1 cup of Currants.


Take S.G.


Sprinkle dry yeast on top of juice base, BM4x4.


Sanitize and rinse cheese cloth, secure to top of BMB in place of lid.


Punch down cap 1 – 2 times daily until vigorous fermentation phase subsides.


Once vigorous fermentation has subsided, replace cheese cloth with bung and airlock.


Give BMB a gentle shake 1 – 2 times daily in place of stirring to re-wet skin bag without losing CO2 cap.


Step 2: Day 21


Take S.G. Ensure that stabilizing S.G. is < 0.996.


Add oak cubes. 90 g total Hungarian oak cubes. Stir. Couple sprays k-meta and replace lid.


Continue for 3 more weeks, gently shaking carboy 1 – 2 times daily.


Step 3: Day 42


Take S.G.


If S.G. is not acceptable and more time is required, consider spritzing K-meta solution in the headspace when checking.


Remove skin bag, press to obtain juice from bag into fermenter.


Re-rack to secondary carboy.


Add #3 Potassium Metabisulphite and #4 Potassium Sorbate directly to carboy of wine.


De-gas wine using drill with degassing attachment for 5 – 10 minutes. Reverse direction every 30 – 60 seconds.


*** Is there any reason to not use the clearing agents? If so, how come? From my reading, there doesn’t seem to be too many negatives. ***


Stir in package of #5 Kieselsol. The second will be added later.


Fit airlock filled halfway with sulphite solution into the neck of the carboy and leave for 24 hours.


Stir in both packages of #6 Chitosan.


Wait 1 hour.


Stir in 2nd Kieselsol.


*** WE instructions call for addition of Hungarian Oak Cubes at this point, however, they were added previously. Should I purchase more and add them at this stage? ***


Top off with a similar wine or sanitized glass marbles to within 2 inches of bung.


Replace airlock and leave wine to sit in a warm (68-77 F), undisturbed area away from direct heat and light.


After 5 days, give the carboy (without lifting) to allow any sediment stuck to the walls to drop.


Replace airlock with a solid bung.


*** At this point, continue aging the wine per your own preference. ***


Step 4: Re-racking. Day 132


3 months from last sulphite addition, re-rack into another carboy.


Add sulphite, 1.5 g (1/4 tsp) Potassium metabisulphite.


Consider adding more oak.


Repeat step 4 every 3 months until satisfied with aging.


At last re-racking prior to bottling, add Tannin Riche Extra at a rate of 0.2 – 0.4 g per gallon per instructions. Use digital scale. If scale unavailable, approximate weight is ¾ tsp = 1 gram. Dissolve the tannin in 10 times its weight in warm water (95F). Add to wine.


Step 5: Bottling.


If filtering, do so at this stage. Never filter cloudy wine.


Leave wine to sit undisturbed a minimum of 2 days to allow settling.


Carefully syphon wine into clean and sanitized bottles.


Cork bottles and leave upright for 3-5 days allowing the cork to expand.


Invert or store on side to keep cork moist.


Store wine at 52-65F.

Skins and bags: As a general rule, I put wet skins (like the ones in your Lodi Cab) in the muslin bag. I put dried skins (like the ones that come in some RJS kits) in to the must loose.

Initial Gravity measurement: Everyone does things a little differently. Personally, I mix the skins and juice, then leave the must to sit overnight. The next day, I stir and get a SG measurement. If I'm in a happy place, I drop yeast.

Tannin FT Rouge: It's a matter of taste. I add tannin in the primary.

Clearing agents: I find them unnecessary. Use them if you have a wine that won't clear. Wines coming out of an EM are usually dark and clear. Time is nature's clearing agent.

Oak Cubes: Rinse your oak cubes and place them back in for aging. It typically takes 3 months to get all the oaky goodness out of them.

Racking : Time and temperature will degas your wine. And, you can get a good sense of how much CO2 is left in the wine when you rack (recommend racking/dosing every three months until the sediment stops dropping out of it). If you have a vacuum pump, all the better. It will pull the CO2 out during the racking process and give you a nice frothy head of suds. A lot of us have the AIO and rack our wines 4-5 times before bottling.

Aging: The number one reason to age wine in a carboy is to keep you from drinking the wine before its time. If you can, let your reds age a year in the carboy before bottling. Try a taster at 18, 21 and 24 months. By that time your wine will just start to hit its stride.

Bottling: If you have any sediment in your carboy, DO NOT bottle from that vessel. Rack your wine away from the sediment into a clean carboy. Wait a day. If there's no sediment, bottle away.

Just a few things to consider.

The kit you are doing requests filling to the 6 gallon mark before adding the skins, you are only filling to the 5.5 gallon mark, while shorting water may help to increase body on cheaper kits, you may want to reconsider, particularly since you already have a premium kit, really good skins pack, and are adding currants and tannins to the plan.

Purportedly, kits come with sufficient nutrients to complete fermentation, BM 4x4 can be a bit of a nutrient hog, you may want to add some Fermaid K to your plan, or at least have it available if needed.

I'm with Jim on the clearing, you're going through the trouble to actively increase the body of your wine, why chance stripping anything out with clearing agents? Time will clear your wine just fine, and it's been well noted here on the forum that this particular kit really starts to come into its own past the two year mark, so there's no need to rush anything. Take a year to get it fermented and bottled, odds are that you'll have more wine left to enjoy after the two year mark than if you bottle at 6 months.

Just my two cents................

Great information, thanks! Your suggestions make sense and I will follow them.

I will addend my instructions and add to my notes as needed. I am not sure the rules on reposting, so I won't keep posting the addended instructions. If any newbies out there want my latest updated instructions, just shoot me a message and I will send them to you.

I have been skipping the bentonite on the Eclipse kits, I find I lose far to much on the first racking when using the bentonite, again with the timelines involved it will clear without it.

For those of you that used BM4x4 instead of the EC-1118, did you add extra nutrients like Fermaid-K? If yes, how much?

Hi All,

Between the videos and this thread I have been motivated to try a 6mth extended maceration on a WE E Stags Leap merlot kit. I wanted to see what you guys think about the necessity of keeping the lees?

I bought some 25L glass balloons to do this in but the opening, while larger than a standard 23L carboy, is still not big enough to push down the cap.

So Im thinking of doing the primary in a bucket fermenter and then transferring the wine and the skins to the balloon for 6mths, while leaving the oak bits and dead yeast behind.

Anyone do it this way? Any advice on whether I need to keep those lees?

Thanks
Sean