WineXpert Anyone know for sure???

I'm keeping an eye on this thread.
I've a WE Pinot Noir that's got that same sour taste on the first day. The second day, with the half-empty bottle sitting just corked on my countertop, it's mostly dissipated and much tastier.

wineh said:

I never developed a taste for Jack Daniels, but IMO, putting coke in whiskey, rum or vodka ruins the coke and the alcohol.

Click to expand...

There is a magical ratio.
But they also stand well on their own.

Ok I've taken a bottle of Calif. Merlot, a bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon and a bottle of Sangiovese. I'm using these because they were all started at the same time. These were being aged in a 1gallon jug. I also have the rest of these same kits in a 3 gallon carboy bulk aging, along with a 3 gallon carboy of Diablo Rojo, the 1gallon of this one disappeared. :: oops. The 1 gallons were done this way for testing. Now these can be bottled at around 4 weeks. All were bottled at 60 days after starting.The Calif. Merlot is a 6week kit. In October of 2015, I made a 4 week Merlot, this is what started me on this test. I realized the SMELL/TASTE of these wines were in every one of the kits, (Whites And Reds). This has also been detected in a Fontana Kit. So I am not on a mission to destroy Winexpert or any other manufacturer of wine kits.. These are the only kits I've made. Lots and lots of fruits, and concentrates, with not even a hint of this nuisance. I love wine, I like to taste and test, cheap wines and pricey wines. I'll buy 1 of each of the above mentioned wines, I also test these same wines for pH, TA etc. Yea I know, so I like knowing, welcome to my laboratory. So here's what I'm getting at. If I were blindfolded, given each of these wines I would tell you they all smell alike, taste so similar it's not even funny. So can my wife and she doesn't like alcohol. Don't worry I consume enough for us both. ... The only difference is the levels of oaks and the tannins. But I can take any store bought, winery bought or personally made wine and can tell all of them apart like daylight and dark. So I've ordered another Merlot and I will split this into Three 2 gallon batches to see if I can figure this out. I should receive the kit by Monday April 4th.

wineh said:

The prickly feeling I'm referring to would be the CO2 bubbles bursting on your warm tongue. Try it with a nice cold Coke to get the (really powerful) idea.

Click to expand...

Hi, and thanks again!! What kits do you use to make your wines?

I don't think I mentioned these kits are the Selection, World Vineyard, and Vintners Reserve. And that the strange taste and smell does lower in strength (in some kits, but not others) and still lingers at 6 and 12 months or longer. Also these kits come from 2 separate locations, 30 miles apart and from ordering online.

The sour taste should not be confused with K.T.
Kittaste is beïng referred to as a sweet artificial taste (I call it a "bazooka joe gum" taste as it tastes exactly like that gum from my youth).

I have now 300 bottles (started a year ago) and opened a 10 months old bottle last sunday. It was a Beaverdale 10ltr "Barollo' kit. This was my thirth kit.
It was very sour, not nice at all. After shaking and leaving it for a while it got better.
The weird thing is, this wine tasted pretty nice three months ago...

Just when I started to doubt this whole kitwinemaking thing (at least for reds) I opened a Winexpert Selection Pinot Noir that was only five months old and it was great (certainly after the "Barollo"). No kittaste, not sour, just nice wine be it with a slightly young taste.
There's hope!

P.s. The actual kittaste disappeared from my wines after I started to throw away the potassium sorbate packages.

Dutch said:

The sour taste should not be confused with K.T.
Kittaste is beïng referred to as a sweet artificial taste (I call it a "bazooka joe gum" taste as it tastes exactly like that gum from my youth).

I have now 300 bottles (started a year ago) and opened a 10 months old bottle last sunday. It was a Beaverdale 10ltr "Barollo' kit. This was my thirth kit.
It was very sour, not nice at all. After shaking and leaving it for a while it got better.
The weird thing is, this wine tasted pretty nice three months ago...

Just when I started to doubt this whole kitwinemaking thing (at least for reds) I opened a Winexpert Selection Pinot Noir that was only five months old and it was great (certainly after the "Barollo"). No kittaste, not sour, just nice wine be it with a slightly young taste.
There's hope!

P.s. The actual kittaste disappeared from my wines after I started to throw away the potassium sorbate packages.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the information, made a note about the sorbate.
I will edit out the words KT and Kit Taste. Just didn't know what to label it.

Tnuscan said:

Hi, and thanks again!! What kits do you use to make your wines?

Click to expand...

I'm a WineXpert guy. Mostly Eclipse and selections reds, and mostly with grapeskins. I still make a selection Chilean Carmenere, but I'm phasing it out soon, as it seems to take too long to be ready when compared to the selection/grapeskins kits.
About the worst direction in those kits is:
Stir for 2 minutes to drive off any trapped gasses.
If you're gonna stir, use a drill mounted device with your cordless, and kill at least one battery. And use a bit of vacuum if you're able.

wineh said:

I'm a WineXpert guy. Mostly Eclipse and selections reds, and mostly with grapeskins. I still make a selection Chilean Carmenere, but I'm phasing it out soon, as it seems to take too long to be ready when compared to the selection/grapeskins kits.
About the worst direction in those kits is:
Stir for 2 minutes to drive off any trapped gasses.
If you're gonna stir, use a drill mounted device with your cordless, and kill at least one battery. And use a bit of vacuum if you're able.

Click to expand...

I agree with the ( worst direction part). I went about 15 to 20 minutes in the past. Then the drill and the AIO. Thanks!

Merlot Vintners Reserve started last night, was divided into four 1.5 gallon batches.
The bentonite was used in all four as was the oak package. Sg. 1.100 / Spring water @ 5.6pH / Must pH 3.7 / TA .--
Batch 1 Using Lav. EC 1118 with all packets included in kit @ APT. Amounts

Batch 2 Using Lav. EC-1118 and K-meta only.

Batch 3 Using Lav. RC- 212 and K-meta only.

Batch 4 Using R.S. Pasteur Red and K-meta only.

Tnuscan said:

Merlot Vintners Reserve started last night, was divided into four 1.5 gallon batches.
The bentonite was used in all four as was the oak package. Sg. 1.100 / Spring water @ 5.6pH / Must pH 3.7 / TA .60
Batch 1 Using Lav. EC 1118 with all packets included in kit @ APT. Amounts

Batch 2 Using Lav. EC-1118 and K-meta only.

Batch 3 Using Lav. RC- 212 and K-meta only.

Batch 4 Using R.S. Pasteur Red and K-meta only.

Click to expand...

Just checked in on wine and fermentation is going strong, before stirring I took a reading sg@ 1.036. Ferm. room is at 70deg. All is well, the aromas of the different yeasts are interesting.
Note: On day 2, I noticed the #3 batch had no activity. While inspecting the RC 212 packet I came to realize it was marked 2013. (how odd) Re pitched and it took off like a champ.

Spikedlemon said:

I'm keeping an eye on this thread.
I've a WE Pinot Noir that's got that same sour taste on the first day. The second day, with the half-empty bottle sitting just corked on my countertop, it's mostly dissipated and much tastier.

Click to expand...

Is this about the S.I. New Zealand?

I first thought I liked this 5 months old wine because I opened it after the sour 10 months old Barollo.

I'm going really fast through my 29 bottles because it really is just great wine.
Not just for a kit but if I would have bought it in the shop I would have gone back and bought another box.

This is also the first selfmade wine that does not taste thin or light on alcohol and it even smells great.
Also no hint of CO2.
I must have done something right with this one.

If all my future kits turn out like this I won't be buying any store wine anymore...

Do I sound thrilled about it?

Dutch said:

Is this about the S.I. New Zealand?

Click to expand...

No, mine is the World Vinyard California Pinot Noir.

Tnuscan said:

Merlot Vintners Reserve started last night, was divided into four 1.5 gallon batches.
The bentonite was used in all four as was the oak package. Sg. 1.100 / Spring water @ 5.6pH / Must pH 3.7 / TA .60
Batch 1 Using Lav. EC 1118 with all packets included in kit @ APT. Amounts

Batch 2 Using Lav. EC-1118 and K-meta only.

Batch 3 Using Lav. RC- 212 and K-meta only.

Batch 4 Using R.S. Pasteur Red and K-meta only.

Click to expand...

4-8-16
All 4 batches had reached Sg of 0.992 and was racked off of gross lees.
Batch 1 was stabilized by degassing with additions of K-meta, sorbate and
finning agent per instructions.
Batches 3-4 were degassed and received k-meta.
All will set for 2 weeks and readings will be taken with taste test on 4/23/16

Note: #1 Most of my fermentations will reach 1.010 within 5 to 7 days, then
be racked into a carboy to finish fermentation, usually @ 0.998 to 0.992 .
These reached 0.992 within 7 days of pitching yeast in the primary.
Note: #2 Noticed that gross lees seemed to be double of that usually left in a
7 gallon pail.

Tnuscan said:

Merlot Vintners Reserve started last night, was divided into four 1.5 gallon batches.
The bentonite was used in all four as was the oak package. Sg. 1.100 / Spring water @ 5.6pH / Must pH 3.7 / TA .--
Batch 1 Using Lav. EC 1118 with all packets included in kit @ APT. Amounts

Batch 2 Using Lav. EC-1118 and K-meta only.

Batch 3 Using Lav. RC- 212 and K-meta only.

Batch 4 Using R.S. Pasteur Red and K-meta only.

Click to expand...

4/20/16
All 4 batches were tested by smell and taste, and all 4 smelled and tasted the same. All had the funny smell and taste that has been driving me nuts. Even with using the different yeasts, they all were the same. And this made me really upset. So I racked off of fine lees and into a fresh carboy/jug and let sit a few more days.

4/26/16
All 4 batches were tested like above.
Batch #1 Had the same characteristics as all the kits I've made before. Only not as strong. I figured this was because it was a 1.5 gallon batch instead of the 6 gal.
Batch #2 Had this same problem but wasn't as strong, and was a tad weaker.
Batch #3 Where I had used the RC 212 yeast, the first packet being a older yeast and not fermenting(2013), a newer partial packet of RC 212 was used to start fermentation. This batch was awful, the smell and taste was really pronounced to the state of being really bad. This is how I came to my conclusion, which I'll address latter.
Batch #4 Had a very small hint of this smell and taste in it. This batch had the best smell and taste of all 4. So much better that I'll be trying this one on a complete kit.

I was really shocked when I came across what makes these kits have this strange smell and taste. Finding out was really an eye opener. I am excited because this revelation will make ALL wines better.


Is anyone curious as to to what brings a lot of these problems with funny smells and tastes into your Kits and wines?????

I am so sure of this (little culprit) that I believe the wine kit manufacturers should add this ==DO NOT DO THIS== to their instructions. It will save them and you a lot of headaches.

Anyone interested??? @JohnT LOL

You should work for media. Always bating, refusing to reveal until after the commercial break.

Yes, inquiring minds want to know!

Tnuscan said:

4/20/16
All 4 batches were tested by smell and taste, and all 4 smelled and tasted the same. All had the funny smell and taste that has been driving me nuts. Even with using the different yeasts, they all were the same. And this made me really upset. So I racked off of fine lees and into a fresh carboy/jug and let sit a few more days.

4/26/16
All 4 batches were tested like above.
Batch #1 Had the same characteristics as all the kits I've made before. Only not as strong. I figured this was because it was a 1.5 gallon batch instead of the 6 gal.
Batch #2 Had this same problem but wasn't as strong, and was a tad weaker.
Batch #3 Where I had used the RC 212 yeast, the first packet being a older yeast and not fermenting(2013), a newer partial packet of RC 212 was used to start fermentation. This batch was awful, the smell and taste was really pronounced to the state of being really bad. This is how I came to my conclusion, which I'll address latter.
Batch #4 Had a very small hint of this smell and taste in it. This batch had the best smell and taste of all 4. So much better that I'll be trying this one on a complete kit.

So I am sure I have found the culprit to the Funny Smell and Taste problem I've been having with these kits.......

Click to expand...

I know! I know!

By the time you drank your 4th glass, you were too drunk to notice the smell! AmIright?

sour_grapes said:

I know! I know!

By the time you drank your 4th glass, you were too drunk to notice the smell! AmIright?

Click to expand...

Lol. You are close, very close. That was part of the process to the discovery.

Tnuscan said:

I am so sure of this (little culprit) that I believe the wine kit manufacturers should add this ==DO NOT DO THIS== to their instructions. It will save them and you a lot of headaches.

Anyone interested??? @JohnT LOL

Click to expand...

I think we're all interested to know your theory / findings because we don't know your processes fully. It could be as simple as "washed my hands after taking a pee for batch 4, but didn't bother for the other 3"