WineXpert Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot

I did this kit about 18 months ago and it is fantastic. I fermented with the skins free and used the mesh bag to put over a second bucket at racking, as described above. I subbed the yeast for BM4X4 and extended the maceration for about 4 weeks, bulked and barreled combined for about a year. It's starting to drink very well.

@AJP - whether it's a racking or a spigot on the vessel. Racking with all those solids isn't easy. But these guys have some great diy tips- one of which is the racking cane placed in pvc tubing ** with a million holes drilled into it** capped at bottom and wrapped in a strainer bag placed into the wine through the cap. Either way you end up with all the solids separated from the wine. At that point I'm just trying to figure out how the seeds are further separated from the rest of the solids.

And @Johnd - basically the question is, aside prom pressing, "are seeds releasing any harsh tannins during primary?

Ajmassa5983 said:

@AJP - whether it's a racking or a spigot on the vessel. Racking with all those solids isn't easy. But these guys have some great diy tips- one of which is the racking cane placed in pvc tubing capped at bottom and wrapped in a strainer bag placed into the wine through the cap. Either way you end up with all the solids separated from the wine. At that point I'm just trying to figure out how the seeds are further separated from the rest of the solids.

And @Johnd - basically the question is, aside prom pressing, "are seeds releasing any harsh tannins during primary?

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I'm a complete noob (but I read a LOT).

By using a valve/faucet at bottom of slanted bucket and draining it that way every day into a sieve, the book says about 1/3 of the seeds will be removed during fermentation (I guess they sink below the cap and drain out with the wine). So a few seeds are removed every day as they've dropped below the cap and are drained out with the wine and caught in the sieve.

I think a bigger advantage of the delestage is the oxidization that occurs every day with the separation of the juice from the cap.

AJ

My second batch of SLD Merlot will turn a year old in a couple weeks. Looking forward to our first taster.

I did this one as closely as I could to the first. Hoping to get similar results. The only difference is I didn't need to top up with a commercial wine. I used part of a bottle of my first batch to top, IIRC.

Looking forward to comparing it to the RQ French merlot I have in finishing now, too. That's going to awesome. I

AJP said:

I'm a complete noob (but I read a LOT).

By using a valve/faucet at bottom of slanted bucket and draining it that way every day into a sieve, the book says about 1/3 of the seeds will be removed during fermentation (I guess they sink below the cap and drain out with the wine). So a few seeds are removed every day as they've dropped below the cap and are drained out with the wine and caught in the sieve.

I think a bigger advantage of the delestage is the oxidization that occurs every day with the separation of the juice from the cap.

AJ

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So the goal is to separate the wine from the solids daily, with seed removal as an added bonus. Not vice versa. That makes more sense to me now. Very interesting technique and I'm gonna read up on it some more. I wonder what kind of difference it would make.
Seems labor intensive but definitely Something to consider in the future. In terms of getting fancy with the primary, I've been chomping at the bit to do an extended maceration which was just mentioned. And I may go for it on This Stags Merlot. I saw a YouTube video directly comparing an Amarone kit with and without extended maceration. Yet another interesting thing to consider.

Ajmassa5983 said:

And @Johnd - basically the question is, aside prom pressing, "are seeds releasing any harsh tannins during primary?

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No. If seeds released harsh tannins during fermentation, we'd have to pick seeds out of grapes before making wine.

As I said, don't break the seeds and you're safe, whether you're fermenting, hand squeezing or pressing.

Had our first taster of batch #2. The wine is about 1 year old. Holds a lot of promise, but needs more time to soften. Mrs Mann is happy - this is her favorite red.

I used a lot less commercial wine to top this one up coming out of the secondary. Happy that batch #2 is turning in to the same wine as batch #1.

Frosty said:

What do you mean by resanitize the oak cubes?

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Sorry, I've been away. I rinse them in water, then metabisulfate solution, then water again.

So we made this wine in October 2017 and are just beginning to drink it. I have to say, it is the dirtiest wine we have ever made. Tempranillo is probably 2nd but didn't drop out this young. We racked it 3 times, and it was clear when bottled. Yet we have crazy amounts of sediment in the bottle. From start to bottle was about 5 months. Any idea why this may be?

RiderEh said:

So we made this wine in October 2017 and are just beginning to drink it. I have to say, it is the dirtiest wine we have ever made. Tempranillo is probably 2nd but didn't drop out this young. We racked it 3 times, and it was clear when bottled. Yet we have crazy amounts of sediment in the bottle. From start to bottle was about 5 months. Any idea why this may be?

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That has not been my experience with any of the Eclipse level wines. I generally run the reds through a 5 micron gravity fed filter after about 6 months to a year. I seldom have drop-out.

I find my eclipse reds (and RJS EP ) drop a sediment about 18 months from start, not sure it it is related to my well water or what. Since I typically decant my reds I have not really worried about it, in fact for a lot of them I find the sediment seems to correspond to when they become good. I do not filter Eclipse / EP series reds and typically bottle around the 9-12 month mark.

RiderEh said:

So we made this wine in October 2017 and are just beginning to drink it. I have to say, it is the dirtiest wine we have ever made. Tempranillo is probably 2nd but didn't drop out this young. We racked it 3 times, and it was clear when bottled. Yet we have crazy amounts of sediment in the bottle. From start to bottle was about 5 months. Any idea why this may be?

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After a winter in my (it gets to 10C) storage area, my Eclipse wines like to develop wine diamonds. Any chance that's what your experiencing?

No, diamonds are different, and I am familiar with them. My dropout is more like a fine silty tannin mess.

Yep definitely not diamonds, It is a fine, dark red and sticks to the side of the bottle (from lying down aging). It is very easy to decant without any coming over.

Does the kit come with pectinase?

winojoe said:

Does the kit come with pectinase?

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I don't believe any WineExpert kits come with pectinase. That is a RJS kit thing.

ahhh...this is the likely reason why the wines are not clearing. Grape skins can contain pectins. Especially the wet grape skins. Try using some pectic enzyme in the next batch of wine when there are wet grape skins involved.

FWIW, I’ve done this kit a couple times (the last time around without clearing agents) and haven’t had an issue with it clearing. It sheds a ton of lees both in the move from primary to secondary AND over the next 3 months in clearing.

Your best bet, especially if it tastes right, is to just leave it alone.

Someone a lot smarter than me says that wine is made on its schedule, not ours. When I first started making wine, I was in a rush to bottle... and tended to drink very young wines.

Now, reds typically sit in bulk for a year before bottling.

So I’d say chalk this up to experience. However long you waited before bottling... do that again, plus 3 months. If there’s anything at the bottom of your carboy, rack it, dose it and wait 3 more months.

Amen to that!

jgmann67 said:

FWIW, I’ve done this kit a couple times (the last time around without clearing agents) and haven’t had an issue with it clearing.

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+1

I wouldn’t put much weight into the lack of pectinase in the WE kits. I’ve made about 15 of them that all came out crystal clear; half with and half without the supplied clarifiers.