Mustang grape wine...how do I do this and make calculations?

This is a five gallon batch. I only have a 5 gallon primary so I will have to split it between that and my 3 gallon. I am making about 50 lbs of grapes. How do I do this in the primary and make the calculations for SG and add the right amount of water with grapes and pulp comprising more than 50% of the volume?

WHat's the procedure for this??? Help!

The first thing I need to know is how much sugar I have in the must. The problem is that the must is so full of pulp there is no way for me to determine that with my hydrometer. When I get juice off of it, the hydrometer says 1040. Now thats probably not likely in an unsweetened mustang grape. I also have very little idea of how much juice there is. Its a little over 5 gallons including grapes.

How do I figure this out? Just guess?

Here are what I think my options are:

1.) Add 4 cups of sugar to whatever is in there, figure 4 cups is about 2 lbs and rough calculate the amount that's in there when I filter off the pulp, then add the appropriate amount to get to about 12% alcohol. This of course ignores how much sugar is already in it from the fruit, but it couldnt be much anyway really.

2.) Since Im using Montrachet yeast, it has a tolerance of about 13% ABV, so I just add sugar initially at 4 cups, wait until it gets close to dry and add some more until it looks like it won't consume it any more.

Think I have a plan.

I dumped in 4lbs of sugar, taking the must, including pulp and everything to 1050. It was strained before measuring, but still very pulpy. I think this will be close enough. Also added about 1.5 gallons of water in the process of adding sugar. This should NO DOUBT be well less than what I need to make a 5 gallon batch. So, after 5 days or so, Ill strain off the pulp so I know how much juice I have (starting at 1050) and add water and sugar accordingly to get to about 12% alcohol at dryness. I have the method for calculating this in C.J.J Berry's book. After the 5 days is up, Ill re-measure my acidity (currently at .8% tartaric, but that doesnt include final dilution to 5 gallons) and adjust accordingly if needed.

Thoughts?

just make sure you sulphite the must so it does not start to ferment on it's own. actually 5 days, I'm thinking it will start to ferment on it's own by then.

did you press the grapes?

They are pressed like crazy. When I said 5 days, that is while fermenting. I'll ferment at 1050 and calculate additional sugar as necessary to get to 12% ABV or so.

you know, my suggestion would be to get it up to sg from the start before you start fermenting. trying to do calculations on starting at this point, then adding more sugar and figuring out the difference is just an iffy thing to do.

Don't add anymore water, you will dilute it too much. add more sugar and get the sg up to 1.080 to 1.090. Push a strainer down into the must to get enough liquid to take a reading.

Hey, I just seen where you posted your first post on this subject last night. I truely apologize that no one has gotten back to you. Sunday is normally a very slow day here on WMT. Again, I'm sorry. I really hate when someone comes on with questions and needs answers and are left hanging. Our goal on the site is not to allow this but sometimes it does happen.

If this has already started to ferment, you will be find but I would suggest no more water, your acid is not that high and if it was me, I won't reduce it anymore than what it is.

I don't mind, Its not a huge deal. I ended up researching and thinking about it and got it figured. I certainly don't come here expecting immediate answers, especially on a weekend. Lol.

I like your suggestion of adding the sugar I need now, but the problem with that is that if I add sugar to make it 1085, then that's great, but the fact still remains...I have NO IDEA how much juice I have. Its pulp and skin AND juice right now and I don't think there is any way of determining that with any certainty until its strained off the pulp after a week of primary fermentation.

I currently have the must separated into TWO five gallon containers. and they probably have about 8 gallons of juice/pulp/skin between them.

I think I have more than enough grapes for a 5 gallon batch without concern of dilution.

Do you understand my source of frustration and confusion?

Are you suggesting to add the sugar I need NOW to get to 1090 or so, and then in a week if I have to add more water, then add the appropriate amount of sugar AND water to get it back to a 12% alcohol at finish?

I am suggesting that you add you sugar to get you up to at least 1.080 and let it ferment to dry.

I understand your frustration on not knowing how much wine you are going to have but, sorry, that is the way it is. Actually once you start making this wine more often, your experience will tell you how much wine you will end up with. You need to let the skins in for about 5 days, rack off of the skins, since this is roughly a 5g batch, go get some paint strainers from Lowes, after 5 days line a primary with the strainers and pour your must into that, now you can squeeze the juice out of the bag to get extra juice, then just let it ferment to dry, rack into carboy.

It's actually a relief to hear you say it's a matter of experience. I'll follow your advice. Thanks a ton.

don't forget to post back up and let us know how it came out.

LOL, we have all been there. Another you need to do is taste it! All thru the steps you learn how your wine will taste at a certain level

Will do. I've made a lot of 1 gallon batches and this is my first go at 5. So I'm a little shy as my methodology doesn't transfer exactly. Still fun!!

One more question...sulfite levels.

How much sulfite should I keep in it during the various stages? What about for bottling so that it ages well? I don't have a test kit, but im going to order one.

Have you tested the acid. My first and last attempt at mustang wine had very high acidity. I may have picked too early though. Adding water will decrease the acid, so will calcium carbonate (I think).

I would add the typical 1/8 to 1/4 tsp of kmeta every 3 to 4 months during aging. You might get away on the lighter side assuming the high acidity. Bottle it when its clear and have that bottling coincide with a kmeta addition. I would shoot for 8 to 12 months in the carboy.

Good luck. I'm not making mustang this year but will for sure be attempting some wild muscadine.

He stated that his acid was at ,80%

Yup....and too high right?

oops missed that. Sorry. .8 is on the high side of the chart Ive looked at but I have no practical experience.

it is on the high side but slightly, I won't worry about it.

If you plan to keep working with grapes, you may want to consider investing in a refractometer as this will tell you the sugar content of any unfermented fruit/juice that you are working with. Takes a lot of guess work out of things, and is well worth it.

Also like this website's calculator functions: http://vinoenology.com/calculators/SO2-addition/

And I like to read this about "The Use of SO2 in Winemaking" http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/so2use.htm

Saramc, won't my hydrometer tell me the same thing?