What R you doing today?

Wife's birthday today. I was all excited, because all she wanted to do was have me cook burgers and watch a movie with the kids. Got home and out of the work clothes, then went to the cellar to grab a bottle of something. Water on the floor - second time in 10 days. Last week, it was a blockage in the sewer line under our front yard. Tonight, water heater took a crap. Was able to get a plumber out to drain the heater, disconnect and get us safe while we decide what to do (his price for a replacement was insane). By the time that was all done, it was too late to cook. Turkey sandwich and a bottle of the strong stuff from my 2015 blends. All in between online shopping for water heaters. We'll hopefully find something tomorrow, along with a good plumber to install. Luckily, one of our neighbors was extremely helpful and had great records from when they replaced theirs two years ago.

Boatboy24 said:

Wife's birthday today. I was all excited, because all she wanted to do was have me cook burgers and watch a movie with the kids. Got home and out of the work clothes, then went to the cellar to grab a bottle of something. Water on the floor - second time in 10 days. Last week, it was a blockage in the sewer line under our front yard. Tonight, water heater took a crap. Was able to get a plumber out to drain the heater, disconnect and get us safe while we decide what to do (his price for a replacement was insane). By the time that was all done, it was too late to cook. Turkey sandwich and a bottle of the strong stuff from my 2015 blends. All in between online shopping for water heaters. We'll hopefully find something tomorrow, along with a good plumber to install. Luckily, one of our neighbors was extremely helpful and had great records from when they replaced theirs two years ago.

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Bummer Jim. When you shop, don't skip over Sears. We did ours in the old house and it was cheaper than most, plus we got 12 months of 0% financing.

How old was yours? Let me know what you end up going with. I need to get a new one myself and have been looking online. With the kids all out of the house I have been looking at tankless but unsure about quality and which brands will last since this is pretty much a new(er) technology. The old school water heaters are dirt cheap plus I can install that myself. Using the new Pex (Sharkbite) fittings.

Our water heater is a Kenmore and it is 34 years old and still going strong! I think they were made by AO Smith.

Boatboy24 said:

All in between online shopping for water heaters. We'll hopefully find something tomorrow, along with a good plumber to install. Luckily, one of our neighbors was extremely helpful and had great records from when they replaced theirs two years ago.

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ibglowin said:

How old was yours? Let me know what you end up going with. I need to get a new one myself and have been looking online. With the kids all out of the house I have been looking at tankless but unsure about quality and which brands will last since this is pretty much a new(er) technology. The old school water heaters are dirt cheap plus I can install that myself. Using the new Pex (Sharkbite) fittings.

Our water heater is a Kenmore and it is 34 years old and still going strong! I think they were made by AO Smith.

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Lowe's carries the AO Smith. Our old one is a Rheem and it went 20 years. Can't complain. We are replacing with the newer version. It's a 75gal gas. When I got the quote from the first guy, I immediately thought of tankless. But I don't have time to research. Found what I needed at the Depot and an installer coming first thing Monday morning. Had some great help and advice from two neighbors and @Mainshipfred .

After running my daughter to work at 6 am, hit the local Giant, got home and showered, ate breakfast and headed down to Harford Vineyards for some juice buckets. Met up with @heatherd and accidentally met @Brian (I think it is @Brian, too many Brian's around here) waiting for Heather to arrive. Talked off both of their ears, as well as Teresa and Kevin's. Kevin even offered us a chair since we where there gabbing so long on the front porch. The nerve of him! You'd think they thought I talked a lot or something. In the future if I only see their son around I'll consider that a possible issue.

I did notice no @mainshipfred around this time...guess he didn't need another barrel...

Heather and I exchanged some wines, though I got more nice reds than I gave out, so I owe her a few when we get to meet again (and I bottle some). So nice to put faces to names! Thanks for putting up with me Heather!

ceeaton said:

After running my daughter to work at 6 am, hit the local Giant, got home and showered, ate breakfast and headed down to Harford Vineyards for some juice buckets. Met up with @heatherd and accidentally met @Brian (I think it is @Brian, too many Brian's around here) waiting for Heather to arrive. Talked off both of their ears, as well as Teresa and Kevin's. Kevin even offered us a chair since we where there gabbing so long on the front porch. The nerve of him! You'd think they thought I talked a lot or something. In the future if I only see their son around I'll consider that a possible issue.

I did notice no @mainshipfred around this time...guess he didn't need another barrel...

Heather and I exchanged some wines, though I got more nice reds than I gave out, so I owe her a few when we get to meet again (and I bottle some). So nice to put faces to names! Thanks for putting up with me Heather!

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That was fun! Photos to prove it: the bottles are from Craig and the buckets are my first pickup from Harford. The carboys are my delicious, but stubborn to clear, Muscat Cannelli from fall 2016.

heatherd said:

...but stubborn to clear, Muscat Cannelli from fall 2016.]

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I forgot to ask you, did you try any clarifiers on them? I know I omit them unless necessary, figure it is one less additive to worry about. I have a bunch from kits I forgot to use them on sitting in my "inventory".

ceeaton said:

I forgot to ask you, did you try any clarifiers on them? I know I omit them unless necessary, figure it is one less additive to worry about. I have a bunch from kits I forgot to use them on sitting in my "inventory".

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Same thing, I typically don't need them. I have fully degassed, racked, kmeta'd every three months, and also hit them with superkleer kc. Maybe a pectin haze?? I was reading on Jack Keller that the pectin haze happens more if you boil fresh ingredients for wine, and that the wine could take a year to clear. I'm at that mark. I tasted both to be sure nothing funky was going on, and they taste great. I'm a little impatient because I would like them in drinking rotation - I had expected to have them ready for summer, and missed that. Wine has it's own schedule as we all know!

This is the image of the excellent wines I got from @heatherd, can't wait to open them up! Will have to act responsibly when I open the coffee port, I have a feeling that one will kick my butt.

heatherd said:

Same thing, I typically don't need them. I have fully degassed, racked, kmeta'd every three months, and also hit them with superkleer kc. Maybe a pectin haze?? I was reading on Jack Keller that the pectin haze happens more if you boil fresh ingredients for wine, and that the wine could take a year to clear. I'm at that mark. I tasted both to be sure nothing funky was going on, and they taste great. I'm a little impatient because I would like them in drinking rotation - I had expected to have them ready for summer, and missed that. Wine has it's own schedule as we all know!

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But you didn't boil anything, so an explanation is beyond me at this point. I guess the question is what could happen to the grapes/juice that would leave a haze but not a noticeable taste that "doesn't belong".

ceeaton said:

But you didn't boil anything, so an explanation is beyond me at this point. I guess the question is what could happen to the grapes/juice that would leave a haze but not a noticeable taste that "doesn't belong".

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My plan is to give them a bit more time, and then test for pectin haze with Jack's procedure:
"To check if a haze is pectin in origin, add 3-4 fluid ounces of methylated spirit to a fluid ounce of wine. If jelly-like clots or strings form, then the problem is most likely pectin and should be treated."

Picked Chardonnay, Viognier, gewurztraminer, Sauvignon Blanc and a bit of Sangiovese for a rose. Destemmer, pressed and it is resting overnight. My back hurts, but my smile is big

ibglowin said:

How old was yours? Let me know what you end up going with. I need to get a new one myself and have been looking online. With the kids all out of the house I have been looking at tankless but unsure about quality and which brands will last since this is pretty much a new(er) technology. The old school water heaters are dirt cheap plus I can install that myself. Using the new Pex (Sharkbite) fittings.

Our water heater is a Kenmore and it is 34 years old and still going strong! I think they were made by AO Smith.

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My previous AO Smith/Kenmore glass-lined tank lasted about 41 years. It was older than my wife. I took it out before it failed!
In its stead, I put in a Bosch tankless heater. That was 12 years ago. (I did install it myself, and am sure you could, too.)

There are pros and cons to a tankless heater. I am glad to have put it in, but there are downsides to consider in addition to the positives. (Here is a positive: I have saved a boatload on gas bills! More than enough to pay for the change.)

Because tankless heaters can be placed nearly anywhere, I relocated my heater to just under the main hot water runs, namely, those that feed the kitchen and bathrooms. (The previous location was dictated by the location of the flue.) This greatly decreased the time that it takes to get hot water to the kitchen and bathrooms. As you may know, there is a small delay before when you start calling for water and when the hot actually arrives. In my unit, it is 3 to 6 seconds. Because of the better location of the tankless heater, hot water gets to the point of use faster than with a tank.

However, here is the downside. Each time you stop and restart the flow, you have to pay that 3-6 second pause again. In practice, this rears its head in only a couple of situations in our house. The most important is doing dishes. If you wash dishes by hand, and you start and stop the hot water, you will not get hot water each time you call for it. Instead, you will get some mixture of hot and cold water as you go along. What I do, therefore, is to get the DW all set, run the hot water to get hot water to the sink, start the DW, fill a bowl with hot water and soap, and start doing the hand-wash stuff out of the bowl. I then wash all the hand-wash stuff, then turn the hot water back on and rinse everything at once.

@sour_grapes: what is the 'volume' on your tank? I know that's a consideration, especially if you have more than a couple people living in the house. I did look on line a bit yesterday and the highest I saw was 9.8 gallons per minute. Can't imagine my family of 4 going through more than that.

Headed up to the Baltimore 'burbs to visit my Sis and meet my new 'niece'.

Boatboy24 said:

@sour_grapes: what is the 'volume' on your tank? I know that's a consideration, especially if you have more than a couple people living in the house. I did look on line a bit yesterday and the highest I saw was 9.8 gallons per minute. Can't imagine my family of 4 going through more than that.

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Our model is 6.5 gpm (at 45 deg delta-T). This is 175,000 BTU/hour input energy.

This has provided no limitation, although, to be fair, we have only had 3 adults living here at any one time. (Usually only 2 of us.) You can run the dishwasher and take a shower at the same time, for example. I am not sure we have ever tried to take two showers at the same time (mostly because we always use the same bathroom to shower, anyway).

I just noticed that Bosch has a 12 gpm (225kBTU/hour) model. (Although I now see that this is at 35 deg. delta-T, which is not really realistic. At 55 deg delta-T, it is 7.7 gpm.) It is probably about the same as the 9.8 gpm one you saw, which I am guessing was specced at a higher delta-T.

Paul,

Is the delta T the difference in Temp of water going into the unit and water going out of the unit?

sour_grapes said:

Our model is 6.5 gpm (at 45 deg delta-T). This is 175,000 BTU/hour input energy.

This has provided no limitation, although, to be fair, we have only had 3 adults living here at any one time. (Usually only 2 of us.) You can run the dishwasher and take a shower at the same time, for example. I am not sure we have ever tried to take two showers at the same time (mostly because we always use the same bathroom to shower, anyway).

I just noticed that Bosch has a 12 gpm (225kBTU/hour) model. (Although I now see that this is at 35 deg. delta-T, which is not really realistic. At 55 deg delta-T, it is 7.7 gpm.) It is probably about the same as the 9.8 gpm one you saw, which I am guessing was specced at a higher delta-T.

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Getting a new water heater and taking a HOT shower!

ibglowin said:

Paul,

Is the delta T the difference in Temp of water going into the unit and water going out of the unit?

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Yup. They usually refer to it as "a XX deg. temperature rise." They generally, IMHO, spec too low a temperature rise (to make their gpm look reasonable). I, for example, need something like an 80F delta-T much of the year.

Here is a list of average drinking water temperatures in the US. http://www.gfxtechnology.com/WaterTemp.pdf

Yikes. I was reading some reviews that people had posted that had purchased a tankless unit for their "cabin in the mountains" and they didn't catch that spec or fully understand it. The water coming out of the heater was only ~100F so not really hot enough for cleaning dishes or even a hot shower. Our water in the Winter months is so cold coming out of the tap it taste like it came straight out of the refrigerator.......

sour_grapes said:

Yup. They usually refer to it as "a XX deg. temperature rise." They generally, IMHO, spec too low a temperature rise (to make their gpm look reasonable). I, for example, need something like an 80F delta-T much of the year.

Here is a list of average drinking water temperatures in the US. http://www.gfxtechnology.com/WaterTemp.pdf

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