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Old 06-01-2012, 05:31 PM   #1
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Default Untoasted Oak

I wanna get more familiar with untoasted oak & am looking for a quality source. probably cubes if i can be picky, i know i dont want shavings/powder.
How about anything other than American oak? Lots of that it seems, says Google .. Hungarian/French? Or are they all toasted?
Any who are curious, its supposed to add structure more than oak-flavors, but it is supposed to enhance fruity flavors in wines...

Anyone have a good source?



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Old 06-01-2012, 07:31 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezil View Post
I wanna get more familiar with untoasted oak & am looking for a quality source. probably cubes if i can be picky, i know i dont want shavings/powder.
How about anything other than American oak? Lots of that it seems, says Google .. Hungarian/French? Or are they all toasted?
Any who are curious, its supposed to add structure more than oak-flavors, but it is supposed to enhance fruity flavors in wines...

Anyone have a good source?
I have never heard that about untoasted oak, but I am interested in learning more. Give us as much info on this as you can get.

Thanks


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Old 06-01-2012, 08:42 PM   #3
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From what i've read..

Presque Isle has a massive bag

There's these guys, but i've never heard of them.. Third paragraph though.

A couple excerpts from this article:

"Untoasted oak is a rich source of hydrolysable tannins called ellagitannins, which break down in must to yield prodigious quantities of gallic acid, a powerful cofactor. The toasting process turns these useful small molecules into large polymers that won't form colloids. Toasted wood doesn't work to enhance color extraction. Worse, the barbecue aromas of toasted wood are amplified by yeast action to produce a strong Worcestershire aroma."

"Wines containing vegetal or microbial notes often can benefit from enhanced structure, which can serve to integrate these aromas into the background and allow them to merge with and support fruit character. Oak can be used to assist this process in several ways already discussed, such as anthocyanin extraction and structural supplementation. Oak introduced during primary fermentation can also provide sacrificial tannins that remove protein and deactivate yeast enzymes destructive to color. Structural enhancements call for extra wood, usually in the form of highquality, untoasted oak chips."

I cant really back up the information, but from what i've gathered;

It's added during primary fermentation of white (and im assuming fruit wines here, my line of thinking) to add structure and help negate some volatile acids (still trying to figure out the how on this), enhances the fruity profile of the given wine, stabilizes the color of the wine over time, without lending a lot of the characteristics found in toasted oaks - the spice/leather/smoke in heavy toasts or the caramel/vanilla/..oak? in medium toasts..

Still looking for more information myself..

Last edited by Deezil; 06-05-2012 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:10 PM   #4
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StaVin slideshow, 3rd & 5th slides

I had found these guys earlier but lost the link.. Anywho, they have Midwest listed on their suppliers - a link found on their Contact Us page - but the French Untoasted sounds like it'd be a lot of fun to get to know..
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:44 PM   #5
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DeZill are we looking for a certain kind or just green oak? Or some cured oak. I like to put it in primary to help the yeast out but I have a ton of oak at the pit.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:58 PM   #6
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Any oak you want to use in wine is cured for atleast 2 years, even the untoasted, from what i can gather... Most of it seems to be american white oak, and that seems to be the variety that adds the structure and such most articles are talking about..

From what Innerstave has to offer, it seems untoasted french oak might still bring some of those toasted components to the table, but thats fine if you use it on the right wine..

Both would have their place, if they indeed do what these articles suggest.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:35 PM   #7
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Joe (joeswine) talks a lot about using oak for building body. He would be a great one to pass this on to for more info. It does sound like it would work, but not add any oakiness to the wine. Joe is a big user of oak powder.

Hopefully Joe will comment.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:56 PM   #8
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I didnt see the article before came back and read it. Nice read. I use light toasted oak in primary always thought it was just to help out keeping yeast in suspension. Guess it does more. I also see that I have never seen the untoasted chips.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:16 PM   #9
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This was very helpful to me:

http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/oakinfopaper09.pdf
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:32 PM   #10
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If i cant find anything else, maybe i'll start here


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