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agdodge4x4 · 08-16-2011, 08:03 PM

I have visited a few wineries and they all seem to NOT backsweeten their wines. They say the grapes are sweet enough as they are and they start off at 24% sugar, end at 12% alcohol or so and the wines are sweet like they should be.

My question is, how do they ever do this reliably? Do they test it hourly until the alcohol content is just right and stabilize it?

If I wanted to do this at home, so that I don't have to backsweeten, what is the method to do it? We like our wines sweet...like 1/2C of sugar to the gallon sweet.

How could I accomplish that by putting the right amount of sugar in before fermentation starts and stopping it when its ready?

winemaker_3352 · 08-16-2011, 08:07 PM

My guess would be the type of yeast used.

If you use a yeast that tolerates only a 12% ABV and the Brix harvested at was 24 or higher - then it would end up sweet.

**cpfan** · 08-16-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agdodge4x4

How could I accomplish that by putting the right amount of sugar in before fermentation starts and stopping it when its ready?

For the home winemaker, stopping the ferment is the fun part. It's pretty hard to stop active yeast. I'm not sure how wineries stop the yeast but some have large stainless steel tanks with cooling jackets around them. I bet that getting the wine cold, plays a big part in stopping the ferment.

Steve

winemaker_3352 · 08-16-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpfan

For the home winemaker, stopping the ferment is the fun part. It's pretty hard to stop active yeast. I'm not sure how wineries stop the yeast but some have large stainless steel tanks with cooling jackets around them. I bet that getting the wine cold, plays a big part in stopping the ferment.

Steve

That makes sense - once they stop - they probably sulphite it, sorbate it, and filter out the yeasties.

robie · 08-16-2011, 10:41 PM

They have to filter out the yeast completely. It takes a very special and expensive filtration system to filter out all the yeast from a wine.

If even one live yeast is left in a wine that still has sugar, fermentation will start again. If even one wild yeast gets into the wine it will start fermenting again. I would assume they would also have to add sorbate.

Same problem if they use a low alcohol tolerant yeast, which dies when the alcohol content gets high enough. What if a wild yeast comes along?

Some wineries dump brandy into the fermenting wine. Enough of it will kill the yeast instantly, but that adds a lot of alcohol to the wine.

Freezing or very cold temps can stop yeast, but they can warm and start working again.

The commercial wine makers I have spoken with will generally ferment to dry, then back sweeten. Although, I do know not all wines are made sweet this way, as some do use filtration.

The moral of the story - don't try this at home; just ferment to dry, add sorbate, then back sweeten; you likely won't be able to tell the difference, except for the alcohol level.

Runningwolf · 08-17-2011, 01:36 AM

Is it possible for a winery to stop a fermentation, yes. I have high doubts if many of them do it. The risks are high. I also don't believe everything they tell the public. They all have their secrets and thats business.

agdodge4x4 · 08-17-2011, 02:35 AM

I don't know, I just know that the ones I talked to said they do NOT back sweeten. So, how they accomplish sweet wine without doing that...well, there are only a handful of ways to do it.

Personally, I ferment to dry, then right before bottling, I take a little of the wine and sweeten it with 1/2 cup invert sugar, put it back in the jug, swirl it around a bit to mix, and then it goes straight into the bottles. I don't test anything...I know that 1/2 cup of sugar in a gallon of 995 wine is perfect for our tastes.

So far, so good, but I was just curious about the commercial wineries.

**mmadmikes1** · 08-17-2011, 02:58 AM

Red Grape wines that are sweet suck(my opinion) but the wineries I have been into during production do add sugar. I watched them do it. Most commercial wines are filtered so they look better and to prevent sediment in bottles. If they are sat they stopped fermentation, I don't believe it.Risk is to high.
White wines like Rieslings are sweetened using swiss reserve method. Yes they add sulfate and sorbate to most, read the labels. They do sweeten if they are making a sweet wine

**Midwest Vintner** · 08-17-2011, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robie

They have to filter out the yeast completely. It takes a very special and expensive filtration system to filter out all the yeast from a wine.

If even one live yeast is left in a wine that still has sugar, fermentation will start again. If even one wild yeast gets into the wine it will start fermenting again. I would assume they would also have to add sorbate.

Same problem if they use a low alcohol tolerant yeast, which dies when the alcohol content gets high enough. What if a wild yeast comes along?

Some wineries dump brandy into the fermenting wine. Enough of it will kill the yeast instantly, but that adds a lot of alcohol to the wine.

Freezing or very cold temps can stop yeast, but they can warm and start working again.

The commercial wine makers I have spoken with will generally ferment to dry, then back sweeten. Although, I do know not all wines are made sweet this way, as some do use filtration.

The moral of the story - don't try this at home; just ferment to dry, add sorbate, then back sweeten; you likely won't be able to tell the difference, except for the alcohol level.

Filtering out yeast isn't that expensive, but it may not work. Filters are not perfect. Filters have efficiency ratings and none are 100%. The jackets are for slowing the fermentation process or cold stabilization/separating solids, typically. Wild yeast does not ferment very high usually, so that is not usually the issue. The yeast used on site might still exist is the primary problem. It might jump into the batch again from another wine or still be alive after whatever treatment was implemented. I am not sure if adding brandy to wine is even legal. You cannot add anything to a product like wine without disclosing it on the label, typically. I know our license prohibits us from doing certain things such as this. "Contains Sulfites," is a term that does NOT imply that sulfites were added to the wine by themselves, but that the product has a certain amount of them. Many fruits naturally have enough sulfites to require the term on the label. I'm not sure if ANY wine is actually sulfite free, but can get the term with a very small amount in it. It's not about the addition of sulfites during production, but just having them at all.

Grape wineries use a brix tester and typically have control over their product in some way whether it's their grapes or are contracted/vouched for from a vineyard. I think most wineries have their own methods, as do home wine makers. Trying to stop a fermentation doesn't seem to be a good method, but controlling what goes into the wine to begin with, works much better.

I'm not saying how we do it.

I'm going to have to agree with everyone, technically. All methods are probably done by different wineries. The amount of money you have and how you make your wine, may determine your choice of how things are employed in wine making. The tried and true method of most wineries, especially the smaller ones, is to just let it kill itself. Whether that is by not giving it enough sugar or using a less tolerant abv yeast to begin with.

docanddeb · 08-18-2011, 01:25 AM

"Sweet" is a relative term. I have had people say that Merlot is too SWEET. Balance of acid can make a huge difference in the "perception" of SWEET. We all like what we like. Ice Wine is SWEET!!!!!!! Glycerin can increase the perception of SWEET. There are a lot of "tricks of the trade" to sell wine. When you find a commercial wine you like... test it. Find out the acid level and the SG. Test many... you'll find much variation, yet you like them all. The palate is a tricky thing!

Debbie