[joeswine]

rocky I lost my last post but if you have a kit wine and made it to tha process than what you have in hand is a balanced wine,doesn't matter what it lacks what matters is you understand the balance and the structure of the wine,from that piont you can reconstrust the wine and make a much better product than you finishes with,remember i made a state ment (when good wines gone bad) thats the key thinking outside the box,when I want to make a wine,i first buy the kit make it and deicect it,the next time i do it with fresh juice,or a cheap kit and enhance the kit or process it to fit my cryteria,if youknow the body andthe structure of wine and want to be creative theirs no limits ,as a cellard dwellar i need to be creative,make my own,wines and to a good standard ,think about the make up of wine the next time you by a 69.95 kit make it and then change its flavor and body as much as it will allow you to,pm me and we will make a kit =together of your choosing.......or lets reconstructe a kit in process and you can see for yourself.................jp

[Rocky]

Thank you, Joe. I will take you up on that offer. Right now, I have two big kits to make, but they are the RJS Winery Series and I like them fine the way they are. I will try a 10 liter kit in the future and we can collaborate on it.

[joeswine]

sounds like A PLAN,,,,you wont be disapointed...as far as good wines gone bad,we all know the usages of extracts and how to prepare them ,fpac,oaking the difference in maturation with fruit and wine ,vest and wine ,cold fermentation,raisins and other off the wall additives,just take a look at any kit low end or high end,look at whats supplied with each and the balance of concentrates verses juice,take that and plot a course of action,the difference between a straight kit maker and a fresh juice maker is wide ,IMOP,APPLEMAN AND THOSE WHO GROW there own raw product have many more bumps in the road to traverse,than kit people,but the net result can be the same,,,WHEN GOOD WINES GONE BAD ,came into play we discovered how diverse wine making can be,we also discuss how to correct some of the problems that came down the road and how we solved them to the best of our ability,..the first item was----( what were we trying to make)...should I continue????

[Rocky]

By all means Joe, continue.

[joeswine]

take for example,you want to make a cab,no big deal right,so you first see what the kit manufacture set out for you to use as yeast, ,do a little research,go on line and find out what yeast really goes best with that wine,research even further and see what charastics the wine should have,armed with this info,your ready to create a decent to good wine out of a shallow box wine kit,but you must first do the research,and want to see this thought,I say this only once and you will not hear it again,......start to make the kit or fresh juice for that matter,,,the difference is when to add the body ,how to create layers of flavor.....notice the term LAYERS>>>>>>are you with me.....think of a good gravy and that's your wine,read it like you would a good sauce,not just fermenting stuff......................step one,,have the type wine in mind..no the yeast that brings out the best in that style (don't rely on word of mouth) its not that accurate...everyone's taste is different...buy yourself a good bottle of that style and drink it as you do make notes of the texture,nose,and body,remembering body comes in three types....once you've done that you are ready to really begin to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX....shall I cont.?

[Rocky]

Joe, you are saying that the yeast packet that comes with a kit is not necessarily the best match for that wine, right? I am aware that some yeasts are for lower potential alcohols and some are for higher potential alcohols. What other criteria is there in matching the yeast with the wine?

[Rocky]

Joe, I understand the three classes of "body" but I am not sure how body and texture differ. Can you explain?

[joeswine]

yeast , depending on the type and style of wine being made,brings out the taste potential of the host wine,as well as other features a grape may posess...there is a tech. name but it escapes me right now...so what they give you may be OK,it might not be the best..check out the LAVIN yest chart on line as well as others.............you'll see..also the age and storage of the yeast they give you may not be as fresh as it should be,thats why you need to build up a work kit of parts ,or a small list of additives,and components to have on hand for doing just what I do......adjusting ..............

[joeswine]

(remember the sauce) so if i refer to the sauce you'll understand me ok..IMOP..texture and body could be described as one but i like to brake THEM DOWN A LITTLE FUTHER..first body....the way the wine wine coats the tongue and mouth....texture the different flavors you taste as you drink or swirl,this can change but not the body....you'll see down the line...give you an example....

you have a white wine you just made nothing to wright home about.......what to do...thoughs ...where to start...what about taste..look in your repair kit...is there white grape concentrate,no,go out and by 3lbs. or so of Thompson seedless grapes for hand crushing,no,take the zest of 2 grapes fruits or oranges,or if citrus is to your Mediterranean taste the zest of 2 lime/lemons and 2grape fruit,add it to the sauce and let stand for 3/4 weeks at least,check it will be delight full..then taste...will continue later..ok..

[Rocky]

Very interesting, Joe. I have checked out and saved some yeast charts and if I am reading them correctly, the Lalvin EC-1118 that comes with just about every kit may not be the best choice.


Also, on your idea of a "repair kit" I have already tried something like that with a Riesling that I made. I served in Germany back in the 1960's and remember the wine having a "green apple" taste in the background. I got some Granny Smith apples, juiced them in my juicer and added the juice to the wine after adding Potassium Sorbate. Tastes really great.