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Wade E · 09-06-2010, 11:10 PM

I did not know that some Champagnes were oak aged. I really dont like many at all whtes wines oaked but love the oak monster on a big red!

**JohnT** · 09-08-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winemaker81

Be careful of aging in small barrels. The ratio of interior surface area to volume is significantly greater than in larger barrels -- you could get FAR more oak flavor than you want.

Bryan

I agree!

We tried to age in a 5 gal oak barrel and realized that it was a big mistake.

ask yourself this... WHY???

we were more interested in having a wooden keg to look at than actually improving the wine. The keg had such small volume and high surface area, that we needed to top it off every 2 weeks. In the end, the wine got too much oxidation. NEVER AGAIN!!!!

My advise is to either go with a much bigger volume (say 10 times bigger) or just simply keep it in the glass and experiment with oak cubes (euro med toast is my favorite). If you use oak cubes, think of the money left over for more grapes!.

johnT.

BarrelMan · 09-08-2010, 06:32 PM

I think you can better control the amount of color and flavor the wood imparts by using a barrel; in a barrel you can start tasting in just a few days and continue tasting ever so often till you get what you want; I don't know if you can do that with oak cubes. In the smaller new barrels two weeks is a long time, it can really impart a lot in that amount of time. But the smaller and newer the barrel the less time needed to mature.
But one must learn a lot about barrels and the climate where the barrel is kept is very important too, if it's too dry the barrel will soak up more of the liquid inside.

**JohnT** · 09-08-2010, 07:29 PM

Barrelman,

I am not sure what you mean.

Why would I not be able to taste the wine?

I can taste the wine, and when I feel there is enough oak flavor, I can then rack the wine off of the oak (thus stopping the process). I never let the wine sit on cubes for more than 6 - 8 weeks, and if not enough oak flavor in the wine, I can then start the process over again.

BarrelMan · 09-08-2010, 08:33 PM

White oak barrels also serve another purpose; beer and wine has oils and about 7%of bad alcohols including methanol, the charred oak barrel reduces the percent of bad alcohol and oils which are in large part responsible for hangovers. I suppose charred oak cubes might do the same, and since it doesn't have to be watertight then perhaps cubes of red oak could be used as well instead of more expensive white oak.

Maybe all those barrels we see in the breweries, wineries and distilleries are just props and they are actually using cheap red oak wood chips?

All I know for sure is the results I get using my white oak barrels; I start with the best product I can come up with, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, and after it comes out of the barrel it is so good I get real greedy with it.

Wade E · 09-09-2010, 12:12 AM

Just like any barrel the firdt uses will need to come out much earlier and as time goes on the wine will be able to stay in much longer. Micro-oxygenation is the main use of a barrel and this cant be replicated in glass or steel.

**JohnT** · 09-09-2010, 12:41 PM

Wade,

Couldn't Micro-oxygenation also be acchieved by bottle aging with cork? Could simple splash racking give the same result? perhaps a combo of the two? or will barrels be the only was to achieve this?

johnT

**JohnT** · 09-09-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarrelMan

White oak barrels also serve another purpose; beer and wine has oils and about 7%of bad alcohols including methanol, the charred oak barrel reduces the percent of bad alcohol and oils which are in large part responsible for hangovers. I suppose charred oak cubes might do the same, and since it doesn't have to be watertight then perhaps cubes of red oak could be used as well instead of more expensive white oak.

Maybe all those barrels we see in the breweries, wineries and distilleries are just props and they are actually using cheap red oak wood chips?

All I know for sure is the results I get using my white oak barrels; I start with the best product I can come up with, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, and after it comes out of the barrel it is so good I get real greedy with it.

I have yet to see any wooden kegs used for storing beer. Bud says "beachwood aged" by throwing slats of beachwood into SS Storage tanks. I do not know of any micro-brewery that uses wooden kegs.

There are many, many micro wineries that do not use kegs and opt for cubes. The cost of kegs is simply prohibitive. I know that only a hand full of wineries out on the north shore of LI and in the finger lakes of NY opt for kegs for this very reason.

Distilleries use kegs in order to obtain color as well as flavor. The nature of high octane whiskey makes it better suited to the use of kegs.

My point is that the expense for 5 gals of wine is not worth the reward and risk. For larger volumes of wine, kegs may make more sense.

johnT.

BarrelMan · 09-09-2010, 03:59 PM

Please see my new thread Oak Aged Beers under Beer making, will make your mouth water

Wade E · 09-09-2010, 10:45 PM

Micro oxygentation ca really only be acheived in barrels as the corks arent poous enough and we wouldnt want them to be either. Barrel aging also lets the wine concentrate alsowhick makes a wine fuller bodied.